Israeli President Isaac Herzog said Friday that civilians in Gaza bear responsibility for the Hamas attack on southern Israel as Israeli bombs are killing scores of people in the besieged enclave.
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said, referring to Gaza, which is not recognized as an independent nation. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true.”
Herzog claimed that civilians in Gaza “could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”
Proponents of the collective punishment of Gaza often claim the civilians living in the enclave elected Hamas. But the last time Gazans participated in elections was in 2006, and many of the enclave’s current citizens were not at voting age or even alive at the time, as about half of Gaza’s 2.3 million residents are children.
Hamas’ party won the 2006 elections, but a government was not formed based on the results. After the elections, fighting broke out between Hamas and the rival Fatah party, which was encouraged and backed by the George W. Bush administration. The fighting led to Hamas taking power as the de facto governing body in Gaza in 2007.
The Hamas takeover was used to justify the Israeli blockade on Gaza that started in 2007 and is still in effect today, giving Israel the power to impose a “complete siege” on the enclave in the wake of the October 7 Hamas attack on southern Israel.
Since the Hamas attack was launched, Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 2,450 Palestinians in Gaza, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. The number includes 724 children and 458 women.
It becomes, more difficult, with each passing day, to try and support Israel. The rhetoric spewing forth, is so repugnant and maligned, it makes me feel like throwing up. Remember the word Humanity Israel and remember there are many millions of us who will NOT forget the
lack of yours…
Israel could have much wiser in its treatment of the peaceful members of Palestinian society,but do you really expect hem to sit back and not respond?
First you say something that makes sense and then you’re right back to ignoring what the President of Israel said. His words obviously mean Israel has no intention of being wiser and he’s letting it be known that everyone on the strip is fair game.
You know very well that in guerilla warfare and urban warfare civilians die.
C’mon man, you know there is a difference from what Herzog is suggesting compared to “collateral damage”.
Herzog was inappropriate.There is a difference in firing a shell from 2 mile away,andk ills innocents,however horrible that may be,and shooting a baby at point blank range.
No difference to the person killed.
Also where’s the evidence that hamas shot babies at point blank range?
Yeah, I want to see the source and be able to assess the assertion myself.
Genocidal comment is not” inappropriate “.Thats understatement ..Its incitement to state initiated lynchings . .
The intent is the same. But it’s easier to be humane when you have state of the art military hardware that’s accurate from long range.
Civilians are being actively targeted by Israel. They have bombed hospitals, schools, and shelters, and NOT because “HAMAS is hiding there”. That is a nonsense excuse; their intention is to ethnically cleanse and assimilate the Gaza strip; something they tried to do in 1948, 1956, and 1967.
How else do you explain Israel demanding civilians withdraw to southern Gaza, and then BOMBING southern Gaza? Like herding fish into a barrel.
HAMAS are not “fleeing”; they are in underground bunkers waiting for the Israeli attack, so the attacks on southern Gaza have no military purpose – unless you believe the rhetoric from Herzog that “there are no innocent civilians” – so they are all valid targets.
UN commission denounced those Israeli bombardments of Gaza as the war crime.
That’s lovely, but what will be done to bring Israel to account for their war crime? Or will that nation- as usual- simply ignore the UN and go its merry way, with the US running Security Council cover for it? If the UN had a shred of the authority and power it thinks it has, there would be UN observers and peacekeeping troops all over Gaza. What a goat rodeo we would see if the US, China, and Russia were called upon to deploy peacekeeping forces to the area.
It looks, US is trying to prevent the invasion of Israeli army into northern Gaza. Maybe, because Iran warned through UN that in case of the invasion, it can’t just stand by and watch. The war against Iran will be disastrous for The West.
Any war against Iran risks the intervention of China Russia hypersonic 200 megaton team, a risky venture at best, a suicidal one at worst. Cutting China’ petro off from Iran where they have big investments may get a nasty response, even a deadly one. It will be interesting to see what NATO may say about getting sucked into a China war. A giant and so many gnomes against two giants. Match for the ages…!!!!!!!
https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20230621_wave_of_settlers_riots_across_the_west_bank
Let’s turn that question to you. Do you want to be shelled by accident or with intent?
The why didn’t Israel stop this: https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20230621_wave_of_settlers_riots_across_the_west_bank It has been going on for years. Years.
It’s not no response vs a response, it’s a response aimed at the perpetrators as opposed to innocents and bombing civilian housing & infrastructure…
Yes I do from other rulers to reflect and change course accordingly .Not Israel .Its a response to the brutalities carried out by Israel everyday for last 30 years . History did not erupt on 7 th in a vacuum
Meanwhile the American Federal government keeps on supporting them, without question or preconditions. The last President who tried any semblance of holding them accountable was Bush Sr. and even he backed off eventually.
The only way any of this ends it to dedollarize to the point $100 bills are nothing but inferior toilet paper.
It’s coming, although they have plans to replace it with a ‘digital dollar’, which will be nothing more than a digital version of fiat.
gold standard
Well, so long as any spoken word against anything Isreal does is considered anti semetic good luck. Might as well call them god.
Getting called anti-semetic doesn’t bother most thinking people anymore as the Israel lobby has overused the term to the degree that it’s utterly meaningless. What does silence debate is the fact that the Israel-Firsters have infested every level of American government and industry and have proven ready willing and able to mete out punishment against those who stoke their ire. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/israel-gaza-harvard-bill-ackman-ceo-b2427784.html
Yes, they have trampled Free Speech and bought all of the high offices. The problem for them is they are dealing with sleaze bags that sold us out to other countries as well.
You can argue every political figure is in the pocket of the lobby, but what’s your excuse of people who vote for the same people who are bought and paid for?
Can you count to two? They don’t have a choice. I can’t add IQ points you don’t have, sorry.
You always have a choice not to vote. And don’t bother counting, we already know you are low on IQ.
Not voting? Thats very Democratic
Yes it is. But I don’t expect you to comprehend.
Oh, a protest non vote, to celebrate a fixed plutocracy? The closest thing I ever made to a protest vote was Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders over HRC because I knew she would get us into a war with Putin in Europe. Shame I’m so stupid to you but so much smarter than everyone in our media.
Yes.
Real Ahole, that one.
This from president of country that actively funded Hamas? stunning.
“actively funded Hamas” That is interesting. Care to give more details, I would like to further explore this idea.
Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who
was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev
later
a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian
Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists
of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by
Yasser Arafat (who himself
to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
He’s in jail and labeled with all sort of names BUT Let’s please not forget ASSANGE on this topic: https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/bangladesh-others/97347/assange-hamas-started-with-israel-backing
Here is another article from 2010: https://www.ft.com/content/5b3bbbbe-0c6a-11e0-8408-00144feabdc0
Israel funded Hamas to counter PLO.
Exactly, see below from ASSANGE
Hamas, Israel, ISIS and, of course, all members of NATO, recently were ganging up against Syria.
The Hamas attack has generated a lot of anger and hate in Israel. That is what will make the ground invasion so dangerous to Gaza citizens. It is easy to sit back 10,000 miles away and recommend restraint, it is not so easy when you just had your child shot while attending a music festival. For 100 plus years there has been a cycle of violence in the Palestine region. This cycle will be very bad.
Yes a music festival, a rave. While on the other side of the barriers, young men and women do not have the same luxury, live in constant dread, despair,70% unemployment rate. Yes, quite bad. Please read this from and please note the date of the article: B’tselem: https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20230621_wave_of_settlers_riots_across_the_west_bank
Yes, a festival at the gate of a concentration camp is not a good idea.
During the Oslo talks,an American businessman wanted to set up an industrial park in Gaza-Arafat ignoored him twice.Israelis left behind intact horticultural facilities-Gazans destroyed it as soon as they took over.
so everybody is a savage animal Tell me why I should pick one side over the other then?
Then neither should other governments like the U.S.
I think the US should set aid to Israel at about zero, if they want to not get along with their neighbors at least they should pay for it out of their own pockets.
The disqualifying even for Israel receiving money from us ($3.8 billion per year) is Israel having the bomb.
Have you picked one side?
Keeping 2 million people in an open air prison for 15 years probably did not help either
If I had a choice, I would force the Israelis to build a wall 50 feet high around the area of the 67 borders with no gates, doors, or windows.
And tell the Israeli government to make do what what lands they have, not grab lands from others.
Why did Israeli leaders encourage this: https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20230621_wave_of_settlers_riots_across_the_west_bank
Their strategy is to cleanse Palestinian Arab land of Arabs and incorporate it into Israel.
A 95 year old war criminal has been called up to motivate young would-be war criminals: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-veteran-ezra-yachin-soldiers-erase-children
What is it with nonagenarian fascists cropping up lately? First in Canadian parliament and now in the Negev. Did they get lost on the way to the Hummel collection convention?
Did you mean Himmler collection convention ?
Old fascists like him as well
https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Hummels_%26_Heroin
A criminal is not a criminal until they have been convicted of a crime.
A criminal is a criminal as soon as they COMMIT the crime. Conviction is just the process of discovering the fact.
What abou tpresumption of innocence?
Are you justifying the massacre and his participation?
Are you justifying the massacre?
Really brave soldier at the time, killing women and children in the massacre. A real gem.
The antihuman nature of Israeli regime should be obvious by now to everyone. Still the collective west is supporting it. It happens because the rulers of The West are not any better than the far-right criminal group which is governing Israel.
They heard that supporting Israel will weaken Russia. . .
They are dreaming about weakening Russia, China, Iran, Africa and everyone else whom they can’t control. Bad news for Zionists and their friends is that the rest of the world is getting stronger.
Even the babies are guilty? This is the precursor to genocide.
Hate builds hate build hate.
So the babies, innocent or not?
The guilt of Palestinian babies is that they also own Palestinian land. Israeli logic is simple: if it is too difficult to chase them out, kill them and take their land. You know, Israel needs Lebensraum.
It is a good theory
It is their practice. Germans, in time of WW II, did the same in Soviet Union.
As innocent as Israeli babies shot.
Where’s the evidence that Israeli babaies were shot?
At least you’ve backed off from the “beheaded” nonsense.
If someone dropped a pile of Israeli dead babies in front of you,you were say they were Gazan dead babies.
A vile slander from our local bigot.
Show the evidence for your claim that Hamas shot babies point blank, and spare us your horrendous bullsh-t.
If shown a pile of dead Israeli babies,you would say that they are Gazan babies killed by Israel.
What vile slander.
You write bald faced lies and then when caught in the act, you spew vile accusations.
You are a shameless psychopath.
That would not be most people’s first thought.
An Israeli settler from the settlement of Ziv said that Palestinian Resistance fighters who took part in the Al-Aqsa Flood operation on October 7 treated her and others with “utmost humanity.”
The comments were made during an interview with Israeli media, and circulated by Quds news network, Aljazeera Arabic Channel, among others.
The Israel woman said that the fighters treated them with “utmost humanity” and that no violence was used against them.
Asked by the Israeli broadcaster if the Resistance had “attacked” her, the woman, unnamed in the interview, said that the fighters “treated us with the utmost humanity.”
“They were trying to calm us down, give us water to relieve the pressure on us,” she said.
She also said that after the fighters released her and others, she saw Israeli soldiers throwing a bomb at the house where the Palestinians and “other prisoners” were held, killing them all, according to the translation of some of the text, as provided by Aljazeera.
Joe, that is a touching story. Do you have a link to the AJ article?
My message to everyone who reads these lines is to remember that the most powerful countries in the world are killing civilians in Gaza. Do not believe them when they speak about human rights and humanity. They have no humanity. We begged them over the past 17 years to break our siege. They never listened. Yet they are rushing to kill us.
https://www.newarab.com/news/cnn-journalist-apologises-claiming-hamas-beheaded-babies
When are you going to apologize. Oh that’s right! Being a psychopath means never having to say you’re sorry.
Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple Israeli air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as Palestinians carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.
According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.
The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return “until we say so” and until “a statement is issued allowing this”.
However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.
I thought they were beheaded. Which story is true?
It’s like David v. Goliath. David’s sling stone killed Goliath. THEN David’s sword killed Goliath.
Same as Judas’s death. Hanged himself AND tripped over a rock, hit his head, and all his guts spilled out.
That region on Earth is no stranger to the same person dying twice, a different way each time.
Did I suggest the Israeli babies were guilty. Explain to me again how two wrongs will make a right
OK; so that puts the Israelis on the same moral plane as HAMAS. So why then should America care about Israeli dead, if there is no moral distinction?
While the death of Israeli civilians is a tragic crime, Israel has been killing palestinian civilians, in far greater numbers, since before 1948 Independence. In the runup to Independence, Haganah and Palmach units ethnically cleansed palestinian settlements in an attempt to increase the area under jewish control – and used terror, and the murder of civilians, to do it. So yes, “hate begets hate”; but whose “hate” came first?
Arabs of Palestine cleansed Hebron of its Jews,as did Jordan on the West Bank.
All dwarfed by the NAKBA.
Clearly Jordan didn’t clear anything, as the remainder of the Palestinian West bank after “independence” was considerably smaller than was called for by the United Nations plan – Israel secured about 25% of it before Independence was even declared, by clearing out the Palestinians in huge numbers.
The Hebron massacre occurred 20 years before; and was a “riot”, not an act of government; some 67 jews were killed, a tragedy, but in the total 1929 riots some 110 arabs, as well as 139 jews, were killed. That pales in comparison to the 1948 organized, planned ethnic cleansings of Deir Yassin, by ORGANIZED forces of the newly formed Israeli government that killed 117 palestinians, including women and children; or the October al-Dwawayima massacre, where again, israeli government forces killed over 100 palestinian civilians; and these are only two of many incidents that caused the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of palestinians from what had been assigned as THEIR zone by the UN.
Zionist idea from the beginning was about robbing Palestine Arabs of their land. Ethnic cleansing is part and parcel of Zionism.
https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20230621_wave_of_settlers_riots_across_the_west_bank
So you condemn Israel for its hatefulness towards Palestinians?
Or do you only condemn hatred if it’s an Arab doing the hating?
So you condemn Israel for its hatefulness towards Palestinians?
Or do you only condemn hatred if it’s an Arab doing the hating?
Old Testament stuff …
Yes, when G-d killed the first born. Babies. G-d gave David a lifeline even though he lusted for another man’s wife, securing his death by putting him in the front line in battle. Why? Because David loved G-d. Lot of killing and begetting in the Old Testament.
Herzog became President with such opinions it says a lot about Israel.
Same with the US.
Werner Herzog couldn’t film anything this disturbing.
Herzog is trying to gain acceptance of the double standard that is so often accepted among the radical right. The idea he’s trying to sell is that acts of terrorism, such as the indiscriminate bombing of residential areas in Gaza, are not terrorist attacks if they are done by Israeli forces.
Openly announcing and “justifying” war crimes in advance.
If that doesn’t work, he can always borrow “GENOCIDE TO SAVE LIVES” from our back pocket. We never leave home without it.
(Sarcasm)
that is our motto
what
Israeli President Says There Are No Innocent Civilians in Gaza
if that is the case then there are no innocent civilians anywhere, including Israel
Well the children say mean things, right?
More bad news from Gaza. Israel has decided that bombing the ordinary people there is justified, half of whom are children. This will not turn out well for anyone, and Israeli leaders will live to regret their choice. Their bloody hands will be a legacy of death to the innocent. Far worse than any of the other choices…
The Israeli leaders will not regret their choice. They have stated the desire to eliminate all Palestinians from Gaza, the West Bank. It is on record. I predict that it things get really out of control, and there are attacks from other Arab countries, we will launch aircraft to take them out, and, there will be the danger that Israel would use a tactical nuke. Or two. After all, the Pentagon Papers revealed that we actually had such a plan for Vietnam. So, would we support Israel if is used one?
Ohhh now I get it. Just unilaterally declare that no one is innocent, and that gives you a blank check to open fire on anyone and everyone.
GENOCIDE YOUR ENEMIES WITH THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK!
But this is coming from the ‘most moral army in the world’, right?
Israel is allowing time for all non-combatants to move to safety. Therefore, all who remain must want to fight or are being held by Hamas to provide propaganda photos later.
Stay & be attacked, OR, flee to the south as instructed and…be attacked.
No “attack” in the south, Unc’s, that’s your imagination again.
From Al Jazeera :
“Palestinians in southern and central areas of the enclave, where people were expected to flee to, said air strikes had hit there overnight, with central parts also hit on Friday morning. “No place is safe in the entire Gaza Strip,” the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/13/palestinians-flee-their-homes-towards-southern-gaza-after-israeli-order
Propaganda.
Two of us evidencing our claim. You ramming the cotton ball of ‘nope nope it’s propaganda’ in your ears.
I don’t think you’re being rational, Stroker Ace (1983).
Look who it benefits. Not Israel, they are posed to invade, why risk global condemnation with a dumbazz low yield stunt like this.
Now on the Hamas side, they have a lot to gain and a long history for set-peice photo ops like this to garner global sympathy.
You want to be that gullible because it serves your political objectives, just like Hamas. Despicable.
give it up. you are not convincing any of us – i wonder if you are even convincing yourself
I don’t need to convince you, exposing your lunacy is quite satisfactory.
blocked … obvious paid troll.
I don’t think he is. He once said he respected John Bolton when I had a previous encounter with him.
Walrus fetishist ?
Nobody would waste money on that tripe.
Based on the nature of its comments, it’s the same person as Donna Julia or Irrational Stinker; just another pen name.
“Why risk global condemnation”?? Look at the headline; when the PRESIDENT of Israel says “No one in Gaza is innocent” why wouldn’t they intentionally bomb civilians? That has been there modus operandi for decades. Israel could care less about “global condemnation, as long as they have the US in their pocket. But I’m an American, and I no longer support them. Hopefully that number will grow.
When the civilians, the ones trying to get passed Hamas, are out of the north, those that remain are not “innocent”.
The bombings are in the south, including near the Egyptian crossing, and that has been reported by Egypt, US citizens in Gaza, and by the UN on the ground – who, by the way, were also bombed. And you are wrong; all civilians ARE “innocent”. But if you want to ascribe guilt to a child killed in Gaza, then you must also ascribe “guilt” for their government’s actions to a child killed in Israel, or you are a hypocrite.
Yes, Rafah was bombed to stop Hamas leaders from exiting the country and Egypt is OK with it because they don’t want these vermin either.
That does not mean aid is not available in the central and southern parts of Gaza.
Of course it does
Nothing can get in, and nothing can get out; only Rafah was a possibility, and THAT’S being bombed too. If the Israelis won’t open the gate, and the Egyptians won’t, and the Israelis bomb EVERYWHERE, what possible “aid” are you talking about???
The Israelis are not “bombing everywhere”, they are bombing the north and have bombed the Rafah exit. Central and southern Gaza is free from Israeli bombing, ah, I can’t speak for Hamas maybe attempting another staged atrocity on their own people to fool the dupes though.
No, they have bombed in the center as people flee south; and Rafah IS the south. Stop blaming Hamas for Israel’s atrocities; HAMAS has enough of their own to be blamed for. Your posts reek of Hasbara; which is an Israeli department that proactively scrubs boards and floods with pro-Israeli messaging and anti-anyone-else, calling all criticism “propaganda” while insisting Israeli propaganda doesn’t exist.
Rafah’s entry point bombed, yes.
The rest of southern and central Gaza not bombed and your taqqya re. Hamas not staging atrocities for propaganda purpose is duly noted.
These acts are Israel’s own. And they will be forced to account for them someday. Your comments are nothing but Israel’s Hasbara campaign in action; paid shills trolling the internet and flooding with disinformation. The truth; Israel IS bombing Gaza, including road movements south; they have stopped all food, water, fuel, and electricity from reaching the strip, they have bombed hospitals, schools, mosques (where civilians are taking refuge) and UN refugee centers, and have killed far more civilians than HAMAS has. You can excuse it, as you will; but it’s a simple fact.
The truth is these Hamas vermin should get bombed,
civilians have plenty of time to get out,
unlike the sneak attack perpetrated by Hamas.
If they don’t like all these complications and difficulties, they shouldn’t start wars!
They do not have time to get out, and they have nowhere to go. Let Israel open up the northern gate and allow women children and the elderly to get out. The truth is, Israel WANTS a massacre. The Israeli leadership is no better than HAMAS.
Stupid to start a war then.
The Palestinians didn’t. ISRAEL caused this, by invading and annexing Gaza and the West Bank in 1967, and ISRAEL started that war.
Puck your history lessons, this sh1t got reignited by Hamas terrorist massacring babies, women and civilian men.
The only way to stop these atrocities is with a PUNISHING response.
Making excuses and minimizing HORROR only emboldens them to do more.
No, the latest round of violence started with expanded settlements in the west bank, settlers attacking palestinians, and a settler incited riot at the al aqsa mosque, with the israeli government’s complete lack of action. HAMAS was extreme; but they also attacked the IDF, and killed many more soldiers than they lost – hardly the act of cowards.
This is a Hamas inspired problem, not from the West Bank. THIS is where we start.
No; HAMAS is responding to Israeli acts going back decades. You have blinders on, or you are a paid Hasbara troll.
Well the PA was smart enough to stay clear and Hamas can inherit the hurricane, taqqya beeach..
It’s happening. Israel has also said that the humanitarian goods that Turkey has flown in will not reach its destination. It will be bombed. Google it.
Aid will be available south of the Gaza River and everybody knows it.
Please site the news story.
i don’t think so. Israel suggested that Palestinians flee to towards the south and then bombed them while they were fleeing =
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-scores-killed-israeli-air-strikes-families-fleeing-northern-gaza
Hamas’ propaganda.
i have no doubt that anything you don’t agree with is just enemy propaganda
Connect the dots. Who benefits.
It would be the worst event for Irael on the verge of invasion. Why sabotage the invasion they want?
It would be the best event for Hamas sympathy.
And multiple reports show Hamas preventing civilian exits.
It’s all designed to con gullible simps.
You obviously have ignored Israel’s disproportionate responses in the past and have some crazy idea that Israel cares about their perception around the world. The comment from their president proves they don’t. Do you think the rest of the world agrees with him? Even our butchers in Washington would be in the minority to agree civilians are responsible, especially when half of them are children.
Weak.
More like truth. Do you need numbers?
Illogical, desperate and thoroughly unconvincing.
What I said was factual.
Pffft!
Enough about your arguments – what about ours ?
Just hate speech masquerading and pious “antiwar”-ism.
No True Scotsman would oppose the Totally Completely Justified IDF, is what you’re saying then ?
You lucked into the 100% Moral Antiwar World View and every deviation from everything you think is automatically “hate speech” and False Antiwarism ?
Word salad diversion attempt, fail. Justice demands punishment for this heinous attack on humanity.
Now, Stroker Ace, you CAN reread a comment until you understand what it means, you know. Panicking because you saw a lot of Thoughtful Meaningful Words arranged in a challenging manner is not the best path to productive discourse.
What’s your definition of “justice” ?
Full compensation for damages, public apology and punishment that fits the crime, in this case capital punishment for the perps and their planners.
Okay ! That’s actually a very reasonable proposal ! Or at least, off to a good start.
Now – who decides the compensation value, the nature of punishment(s), and who the ‘perps’ and ‘planners’ were ?
Just like any other criminal court, let the investigations and arrests begin.
Full cooperation from Hama or … no deal.
You missed my question. WHO do you propose gets to decide the punishment, compensation, and indictments ?
This question will directly relate to the consent granted the process by Hamassians – and by proxy, legitimacy admitted by Palestinians.
“WHO do you propose gets to decide the punishment, compensation, and indictments?”
As in any criminal case, the jurisdiction where the crimes occurred.
You’re…kinda dancing around a direct answer to my question, Stroker Ace.
Is it because you’re not willing to openly say you nominate the Israelis themselves – a recipe for disproportionate vengeance and certain injustice ? Facts in evidence from the IDF and Israeli government’s established overreaction to past incidents ?
It is the LEGAL answer, no dancing, what would you like the Hague?
If we speak in legal terms then…
“CHANGE OF VENUE is the transfer of a legal action from one county to another county for trial. In criminal cases a change of venue is permitted if, for example, the court believes the defendant cannot receive a fair trial in a given county.”
Shift ‘county’ to ‘country’ and you have my rebuttal.
I would suggest the ICC, but Israel for some reason is not a party state.
The Hague would be fine – with a neutral state like Japan or Mexico presiding over the trial(s).
“I would suggest the ICC, but Israel for some reason is not a party state.”
Palestine, however, IS a party state, which means that any ICC-jurisdiction crimes committed on its territory (regardless of who commits them) and any ICC-jurisdiction crimes committed by its citizens (regardless of where they’re committed) fall under its purview.
It can prosecute Israelis who commit crimes against humanity in Gaza, and Palestinians who commit crimes against humanity anywhere.
Interesting ! While I did recall Palestine as a signatory to the ICC, even with your clarification I’m not sure or confident the ICC could compel participation from non-signatory states or citizens thereof ?
Convict in-absentia, sure, but, so what ? I don’t think the ICC would hire bounty hunters (scum we don’t need) to lurk outside Israel waiting for Israel to leave Israel to nab ’em ?
The ICC can’t “compel” anything — it’s a court, not an enforcement agency.
But signatory states are obligated to enforce ICC arrest warrants, which is why, for example, Vladimir Putin isn’t traveling to ICC signatory states right now, and why the US regime pitches a fit and threatens abduction, murder, etc. every time the ICC is asked to investigate alleged US war crimes in signatory states.
If an Israeli or Hamas official was charged by the ICC, there would be 123 countries he or she couldn’t get noticed in without risking arrest, extradition, pre-trial confinement, and trial.
Ah ! I see now. I forgot the obligation of other signatories.
I wonder if indictments against both sides would see Mossadi’i agents kidnapping and renditioning Hamassian suspects; while the USA has Israeli officials’ backs and threatens (including direct force) against any 3rd party enforcing such warrants. As past double-standards prove would be the case…
The country is Israel, it is a criminal act, go ahead and seek a change of venue to some other county (equivalent) that’s how criminal justice works.
This is not a crime between two countries, it is a crime in ONE country.
A direct answer ! Splendid ! Let those who claim you are perpetually dishonest, take note !
But now we have a new problem and must sidebar briefly. Perhaps you previously implied but I did not infer – so I must have clarification : is it your position that the people of Gaza, the Palestinians, are NOT a separate nation-state but are, in fact, the subjects / citizens / wards of the State of Israel ???
Gaza is a separate entity inside the state of Israel granted political autonomy who elected Hamas as their leadership within the Gaza. Not to be confused with the West Bank lead by the PA.
Gaza is a separate entity comprising part of the state of Palestine.
For reference purposes, Israel consists of the blue areas on this map (that’s the territory they were given in their only internationally recognized set of borders, UNR-181):
https://mondoweiss.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/partitionplanmaphigh-580×880.jpg
No state of Palestine, a designated territory, separate entity like an Indian reservation.
I’m starting to suspect the nature of the gap in understanding between us, ‘Ace. So this is critical, and please answer directly so I may best understand you :
Do you view the people of Gaza as sovereign citizens of an independent Palestinian state ? OR as citizens or subjects of the Israeli state ?
Sovereign like a Native American reservation. NOT free to invade neighboring non-reservation territory massacring people because you hate them.
In other words Gaza is not an independent state, that land was turned over to them to govern themselves, but it is still Israeli land, they don’t have a deed or anything of the kind.
OHHHH. Okay, NOW we are getting somewhere. Now it becomes clear why we’re talking past each other on the question of judicial purview and jurisdiction.
YOU see this as an internal issue – Israel government dealing with an internal uprising (Saddam vs. Kurds, as it were)(or US Army vs. Lakota or Shoshone, to spring your own trap upon you). So you grant the Israeli government carte blanche to deal with the Palestinians as they choose.
Whereas I see the Palestinians as a separate nation, living on their own unceded lands in Gaza and elsewhere. I see this as a conflict BETWEEN two nations; not WITHIN a single one. So I suggest an external, neutral 3rd party to adjudicate what I see as an international dispute.
There’s where we differ so much.
So how do we determine if Palestine is a nation or not, definitionally ? What authority can we agree upon to settle this ?
It is currently in dispute but as yet there is no global community recognition for Palestinian statehood.
The so-called two-state “solution” has not come to fruition,
therefore at this time it is still ONE state and an internal matter and this criminal act should be handled by jurisdiction of the victims.
On a quick read of Wikipedia :
“International recognition of the State of Palestine has been the objective of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) since the Palestinian Declaration of Independence formally established the de jure sovereign state on 15 November 1988 in Algiers, Algeria, at an extraordinary session in-exile of the Palestinian National Council.
The declaration was promptly acknowledged by a range of countries,[1] and by the end of the year, the proclaimed Palestinian state was recognized by over 78 countries.[2] As of 31 July 2019, 138 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states and two non-member states have recognized it (Israel is recognized by 165).
Palestine also has been a non-member observer state of the UN General Assembly since the passing of United Nations General Assembly resolution 67/19 in November 2012”
138 of 193 countries = 71.5%. I don’t know where you live but where I am, that’s a majority (over 50%)(or 50+1%).
Is Kosovo a country by your account ? NATO said it is. I tend to think it is. 102 countries of 193 (52.8%) say it is.
“Palestine also has been a non-member observer state of the UN General Assembly”, as in, not a state.
Status: currently in dispute.
So release the hostages and arrest the offenders or face war.
So far, they have chosen war which could wind up costing them land.
Trying to get a direct answer from you is a challenge. I understand why; you haven’t much logical foundation for your assertions.
Despite this, the conversation has forced me to assess how I view the nature of a country. From this I have developed the following syllogism which I believe is both Valid and Sound :
Premise 1 : Geopolitical regions called ‘countries’ exist.
Premise 2 : Geopolitical regions formally Recognized by an extant country are, themselves, countries.
Premise 3 : The geopolitical region called Palestine is formally Recognized by a majority (71.5%) of extant countries.
Conclusion : Palestine is a country.
Concede this or refute it by logical argument.
Gaza is a Hamas controlled Arab territory.
Countries do not become countries because a majority of countries say so.
Ex. a majority of countries say, eastern Ukraine is part of Ukraine, Russia disagrees, so we will see.
If Palestine was already a state, a debate over a two-state solution would not be proffered.
Conclusion: Gaza, yesterday, does not matter because it is about to become whatever the end of this latest conflict dictates.
Cede the point or offer a syllogism of your own. Valid & Sound, please.
And also tell us HOW somewhere becomes a country then, if NOT by majority formal Recognition.
There are two territories, inside the borders of Israel, reality.
I concede that they are independent from Israel, that’s it.
Palestine is a sovereign state that is recognized by 136 UN members.
However, it is not recognized as a country by all countries.
And therefore, the legal status of Palestine is the subject of controversy. Reality.
So, war seems to be the only way for them settle differences unfortunately.
Thank you for your honest and forthrightness; many times it seems, conversations on here end in insult (or were that way all along) so I am pleased when I can engage with someone on a thoughtful level !
I echo your interest in a legal/justice-system solution to this problem. The sidebar into questions of intra- or inter-national matters reflects my interest in seeing true, balanced, proportionate justice meted out in this case. Which, I think, might come only from a neutral 3rd-party to impartially judge the case of plaintiff and defendant.
It’s simply that I do not think the Israeli government or its courts can be impartial or, at the very least, not-vengeful. What party to this madness COULD be ? No slight against the Israelis and their victims – they have legitimate demands of justice.
But so do the Palestinians, and their motivations must not be dismissed or downplayed. An overpowering Israeli court bent on revenge does little more than write a modern Treaty of Versailles, bringing nothing but future harm.
I think TRUE justice is one which satisfies the victims (on both sides) and can only be deemed fair by the aggressors (on both sides). Not to say the judgments will be equal – only fair.
Well done Uncle, see you around.
Non sequitur — the non-existence of one statewould not automagically make any particular piece of territory part of another.
Gaza is not now, nor has it ever been, within the internationally recognized borders of Israel.
It is, however, part of a state recognized by the majority of other states, by the UN as an observer state, and — most importantly where jurisdiction to adjudicate allegations of crimes against humanity is concerned — by the International Criminal Court as a member state.
Gaza was part of Israel when created in 1948.
The subsequent attempts to find a viable solution between peoples resulted in that ill-fated “land for peace” ploy.
Well, the land was designated but the peace never came,
that resulted in no contract.
International regimes cannot just “vote” away national boundaries.
Gaza is not a state, never was, and likely never will be, further it has serious differences even with the West Bank.
It’s an “entity” at best.
Either way, they are at war which makes all these arguments mote.
“Gaza was part of Israel when created in 1948.”
Israel was created by UNR 181 in 1948. UNR 181 has never been amended. Gaza was not and never has been part of Israel.
Gaza is not and never was a nation. A territory located in Israel, only.
Gaza has never, at any time, been located in Israel. It was explicitly excluded from Israel in the UN resolution that created Israel, and at no time since have Israel’s borders been internationally recognized to have changed to include it.
That’s just a fact. You don’t have to like the fact that it’s a fact. It’s a fact whether you like the fact that it’s a fact or not.
https://mondoweiss.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/partitionplanmaphigh-580×880.jpg
I was in error, you are correct.
Nevertheless, Gaza has never been recognized as an independent nation.
” That’s just a fact. You don’t have to like the fact that it’s a fact. It’s a fact whether you like the fact that it’s a fact or not.”
Correct, Gaza has never been recognized as an independent nation. It has, however, been recognized by the majority of the world regimes (as well as by the UN with observer states an the International Criminal Court as a member state) as part of the state of Palestine.
Mostly, agreed.
I still do not see a true “state of Palestine” existing yet. Conceptually, maybe, de facto, not yet.
Stroker Ace has as much said so directly.
Since the Hamas attack was launched, Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 2,450 Palestinians in Gaza, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. The number includes 724 children and 458 women.
Then how in the f*ck did those 2,450 die?
“according to the Palestinian Health Ministry”, duh.
So, none?
If I quoted, you numbers from the Israelis you wouldn’t believe them either. In war, the first casualty is truth.
Try me. Either way Palestinians in Gaza have died. How do you think that is if the ground invasion hasn’t started, if not by airstrikes?
Don’t humor him. If he lives in Israel, he knows full well that in his lifetime he has has free movement, never had raids on his home, never been detained because he has the “wrong colored card”, had bombs dropped on his house, water shut off, electricity shut off, crops (if farming) burned, raw sewage pumped on the soil of the crops, been occupied. He can sit in his comfortable abode type away, drinking tea while enjoying matzoh ball soup, with sufganiyot for dessert.
When you start armed conflict, you don’t get to end it on your terms.
Ummm…COVID. Yes. The 2020s’ great catch-all cause of death.
So that justifies killing the babies?
Israel isn’t, Hamas just DID, your antisemitism is blaring.
Here is a link to Rami Khouri’s column in Al Jazeera exposing how the false news report of Hamas beheading babies originated and spread.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine
I believe the rape reports are also fabricated. The Qassan Brigade attacks were carried out with lightening speed – a hit and run operation to inflict casualties and take prisoners before Israeli first responders arrived. It is not plausible that the fighters would take the time to rape women or that their comrades would allow that. They had to strike and get back to Gaza too quickly for rape to have been a tactic.
The proof is all over, which “religion” practices beheadings and now babies? You lie to yourself and expect others to take you seriously, adios.
Please check the Torah.
Notice any synagogue preaching death to infidels or recent beheading by them?
The Hindus have some nasty writing also but most of them, unlike some others, got past all that bloody stuff.
Don’t try to hard with “facts” or “evidence”, Shmi. Stroker Ace has demonstrated they are not swayed by facts that disagree with their chosen version of reality.
Evidence. Meanwhile, in Gaza: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-gaza-invasion-live
Buying propaganda is for the weak minded, no thanks.
Your propaganda is “strong”???
No, No they are NOT. Israel expects 1.2 million people, many of them elderly, or small children, on foot, with no food or water, to evacuate to the south, and then are bombing people in the south. If Israel wanted to “evacuate” the innocent they would allow women and children to pass through into Israel, and provide relief. But THEY won’t do that.
How much concern did Hamas have for Israeli babies as the beheaded them?
So, first off, there is no evidence that HAMAS “beheaded babies”, certainly not as a matter of policy. ALL legitimate claims of that have been rescinded. It is certainly POSSIBLE this may have occurred in an isolated instance, and that is an atrocity; but the acts of one or even a few psychopaths do NOT justify the deliberate murder of thousands of civilians by an organized military. Yet that is exactly what is going on.
Hamas’ charter calls for the elimination of Jews and the Jewish state, full stop.
The videos of the MASSACRED last week is evidence and available.
Any civilized human being would be demanding justice.
Pretending to be antiwar only to defend Hamas and allow them to continue is actually perpetuating war.
No One is “defending” HAMAS. To the extent they killed IDF forces, those are legitimate targets; where they intentionally killed civilians, that is an atrocity. Where the IDF kills HAMAS, no problem; but that is NOT what they are doing; they are intentionally killing civilians, and THAT is an atrocity as well – only WORSE, as Israel kills many more, and is doing it as a “real government”, whereas HAMAS is just a terrorist group.
Israel has given ample notice and time for civilians to get out of northern Gaza and across the Gaza River.
Anyone remaining either wants to fight or was forced to stay by … Hamas.
Wrong; with no fuel, no transport, no food or water, and bombed/congested roads there has NOT been “ample time” for the bombed to do anything, Your comment reeks of Hasbara.
It’s been well over 48 hrs., you could have walked out of the north and over the Gaza River by now.
Let’s see you try it. I doubt you could go two miles for a hamburger without driving.
Oh, that hurt, snort!
Sorry, but your premise is ridiculous. Just try to get out of Manhattan on a friday night if there is an accident in both tunnels. 1 million people can NOT evacuate under these circumstances and everyone knows it, including Israel, and there is nowhere to go even if they could., The solution is to evacuate through the north, women children and elderly only, if necessary, and have relief supplies available, That IS doable, but Israel won’t even consider it.
Boo Hoo, seek peace.
Or, stop killing civilians.
Civilians aren’t targeted like Hamas did and does, collateral damage happens in ever war zone. The only real safety is to NOT start a war.
I would like to see you move an elderly parent, a pregnant wife and 2 small children 30 miles with no car, no public transportation, no food or water, crowded streets blocked with rubble from bombing, and ongoing bombing. Then tell me how “ample” the time was. US citizens in Gaza have reported how they have found it impossible to move south. We are talking over 1 million people being forced to evacuate; your assertion is absurd.
The Hamas govt should have thought of that before attacking and butchering babies. As it is what is the Hamas govt doing to help their citizens? NOTHING!
They could call for a ceasefire, offer to return the hostages, offer to turn over the perpetrators of the massacre and sue for peace at the UN, WHY DON’T THEY?
Is Hamas a UN member state?
They could appeal and I would guarantee with all the other nations on the verge of war they would get a hearing.
The fault for forcing an evacuation under fire is Israel’s alone, not HAMAS. Why doesn;t Israel allow women and children to evacuate through the north, and provide food water and shelter? Plenty of blame to go around; Israel is earning their share, as has HAMAS.
Over 48 hrs is not “under fire”, Hamas asked for this, it’s all on them.
But they are under fire, as everyone but Israeli Hasbara admits.
Hamas targets are under fire. Most civilians there know where those targets are.
The Israelis have no clue where HAMAS is, as they are mobile and laregely underground. Israel’s motivation is to inflict pain on the civilian population in order to drive them out; only, they have nowhere to go.
Yes, Hamas did ask for it.
Why do you think they asked for it?
Because their support has been declining for years. In a recent poll prior to this particular Hamas operation, 62% of Gaza Palestinians supported a continuation of the existing ceasefire, and for the first time less than half supported Hamas’s goal of ridding the region of Israel entirely.
Hamas’s only chance of recapturing its base of support in Gaza is for it to bait the Israeli regime into doing something so over-the-top stupid and vicious that Hamas looks better by comparison.
And I doubt that Hamas even has to pay you to help them promote that.
So you want Israel to just suck it up?
Of course, Hamas set this up for their political goals and at the behest of Iran to thwart the growing cooperation between Israel and the Sauds.
Nevertheless, here we are.
If Israel is weak, it only invites more adventures,
if it is devastating, that will sent a clear message to Hezbollah, the West Bank, Iran and to SA.
Don’t F— with the Israelis.
“So you want Israel to just suck it up?”
I said no such thing.
I’m not in the business of advising either the Israeli regime or Hamas. And if I was, my only advice to either would be “figure out something to do other than murdering civilians/non-combatants. ”
Excuses are like assholes — everybody’s got one and they all stink.
The nature of power, you either have it and your values rule or you don’t have it and you must submit.
Hamas is authoritarian, the opposite of what I think you are, likewise Israel also and therefore will not submit.
Trite, nevertheless true, freedom most assuredly is not free.
“Any civilized human being would be demanding justice.”
True.
But instead you’re cheerleading for other atrocities against other innocents.
Any given member of Hamas is your moral brother from another mother.
They start another war and then run begging mercy from the coming storm. Justice demands punishment.
If Hamas offered to the hostages, surrender the attackers and planners for trial and sued or peace at the UN, I’d join you but, they want the havoc and they therefore are going to reap the wind.
Maybe their army is most moral after Wehrmacht but I am not sure about that.
And then fire anyone who speaks out against you because Israel-Firsters have infested every American institution https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/israel-gaza-harvard-bill-ackman-ceo-b2427784.html
Obviously, the Israelis believe it’s the Palestinians who should have gone to the gas chambers.
6,000 bombs white phosphorous cluster bombs telling people to escape, then bombing them telling the world that any trucks carrying humanitarian supplies would be bombed turning off water, electricity bombing hospitals
“ Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”
Well, they do justify their “right to the land” on the old testament, so very appropriate …
Who takes the bible literally?
Quite a few, unfortunately.
A frightening number of people, still, in this very year. Such idiots include (but are not limited to) prominent apologists and hucksters such as Ken Ham, Ray Comfort, Kent Hovind, Matt Powell, J. Warner Wallace, Almondo Calvo… Each one with thousands of direct followers on The Medias of Social, and many more by extension.
At least in THAT instance it didn’t instruct to keep the young virgin girls as sex slaves. As the OT god does in other places.
Does this man realize that this same logic would mean that Israeli citizens are fully responsible for the actions of their government and therefore each and every man, woman, and child there is responsible for keeping 2.3 million human beings in a jail/ghetto for decades?
If this “logic” was true, then why the outrage over the attacks last week? There are no innocents, after all. Or is it all just a bunch of murderous nonsense?
One might as well say there are no innocent civilians in Israel.
We don’t think like that, not on either side.
That he does is why I think them Nazis.
This is rich, especially coming from Isaac Herzog, when it was the Israelis who pushed to make Hamas the representative group for the Palestinians to knock the PLO out of the equation. The PLO was working for a two state solution which is verboten to the Israeli extremist governments.
So I assume this means that Israel is justified in murdering babies. Have I got that about right?
“When they murder civilians, it’s terrorism, but when we murder civilians, they aren’t really civilians.” Uh huh, right.
Here is a link to Rami Khouri’s column in Al Jazeera exposing how the false news report of Hamas beheading babies originated and spread.
https://www.aljazeera.com/o…
I just read that Iran has conveyed information that Hamas will release the hostages if Israel stops the bombing. Hamas should do it. The ball would then be in Israel’s court. What I foresee is for Israel to find some excuse to resume the bombing, roll the tanks and soldiers into Gaza, to complete the acquiring of the land, sea, borders of Gaza. What I am saying is this: I do not trust the crazies in the Israeli government. It is on record as declaring the extermination of all Palestinians.
The Israelis really do hate the Palestinian people, only because they just don’t let go of their land.
Apparently, no innocent civilians in Israel either?
Israeli forces shot their own civilians, kibbutz survivor says
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861
If it is verified, it is going to shake up a lot of folks. In an active firefight, innocents can be hit. Let’s see if there is verification.
It’s the same the US establishment tells the US public about other people. “The deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children was worth the price”?. They were responsible for WMDs.
If there had been any WMD’s.
Sanctions by that progressive, Bill f*ckiing Clinton led to the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children. Then he orders the bombing of Kosovo.
““could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”
They rose up periodically against Israeli occupation and exploitation and murder . Has he conveniently forgotten that piece of history .
MAYBE CHILDREN SHOULD BE REGARDED AS INNOCENT.
“It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved”
Hertzog is trying to justify mass murder of civilians in Gaza.But Hertzog’s sick racist comment ironically reflects a truth that the Zionists can’t accept. Hamas has widespread support among the Palestinian people . Since 1987 I have watched Hamas mature from a sectarian jihadist fringe group to a genuine national liberation movement that provides education, health care, social services and government over 2 million people and which has won every election it was permitted to run in.
National liberation movements fighting asymmetric war like Hamas or the Viet Cong simply cannot survive without widespread popular support among the masses. Guerrilla movements that don’t have mass support don’t survive. That is why Isis and Al Qada were defeated and the Taliban prevailed against the US. In the long run guerrilla or indigenous forces can’t win an asymmetric war of national liberation or national resistance by terrorizing the masses they claim to represent.
Mao Tse Tung who literally wrote the book on asymmetric warfare said “The guerrilla must move among the people as a fish swims in the sea.” A guerrilla movement needs the cooperation of the people for supplies, intelligence, sanctuary, logistics, recruits and replacements for fallen fighters. Mao and Che Gueverra and other successful leaders in asymmetric war taught that the most important rule for national liberation movements was to “Serve the people.” Guerrilla movements that don’t serve their people lose the support of the people and cannot survive against militarily stronger enemies, like the IDF. It has become obvious to me that Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Lions Den have survived because they have earned the widespread support of the people the fighters give hope and self-respect to, including the youth of Palestine. Successful guerrilla movements capture the genius of their people.
In the dark recesses of his racist mind, Hertzog senses that the people of Gaza love Hamas and hate the Zionist invaders. So he blames the indigenous people of Gaza for refusing to abandon their dream of freedom.
Yes, Hertzog is correct to the extent that he recognizes that Hamas and Jihad could not survive without the support of their people. But refusing to betray their freedom fighters does not justify killing the people of Gaza which is what Hertzog’s comment is intended to justify.
So Zionism like the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto or the US in Vietnam, has come to the realization that it can’t confine the fight to the combatants. The enemy is the people of the Ghetto, of Vietnam, of Gaza and Palestine. But those people have every right to be free and to support their freedom fighters.
FREE PALESTINE!
Egypt has hundreds of trucks with food and water, humanitarian aide, on the border of Gaza. Israel has bombed the Haifa crossing to stop this aid getting to the people of Gaza. MONSTERS.
If no Gazans are innocent then no Israelis are innocent either.
Of course Israel and its pliant media in the west will continue to promote this sick double standard.
I mean the children, at least, are innocent. Once again Israel has reacted beyond all proportionality. To quote King Theoden: “What can man do against such reckless hate?” This war will end up destroying both Israel and the Palestinians.
Can we imagine how the neocons would be howling if Russia or China made similar claims. Putin would be the new Stalin and Xi Jinping the new Mao. New Hitlers to be destroyed with righteous indignation. Western hypocrisy is now on full display for the world to see.
Herzog claimed that civilians in Gaza “could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.” (This, even though, Hamas was in fact created BY Israel as a counter to the PLO/PA after Fatah went dark.)
Wow- by that measure, the prisoners at Auschwitz or Buchenwald or Bergen-Belsen could have fought against and overthrown the evil Nazi guards…but they didn’t, which makes them de facto supporters of those same guards?
I STAND WITH THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE against the Zionist occupation and mass murder of the Palestinian people.
Hamas, which was created by Israel, is nothing more than a well regulated peoples Militia, being necessary to defend Palestine from the Isreali’s mass murder, ie the right of the people to keep and bear Arms. Everyone should be aware that if you bear arms against your oppressor the Deep State’rs will label you terrorists and kill you all. NO MATTER WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT STATES. THE CONSTITUTION MEANS NOTHING. The cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, abuse of power and outright criminality is beyond belief.
The Israeli’s experienced their own NAKBA (Palestinian Catastrophe, 1948) during WW2. They of anyone should know the utter depravity of the holocaust (ethnic cleansing and genocide) they perpetrate on Palestinians.
Israel has lost the right to Palestinian Land. Return Palestine to the Palestinian people. Find the Zionists another homeland, maybe the US can give their land since they are huge supporters of Zionism. NOPE not getting your land, but we are cool with giving Palestinian land right? And murdering them all if they stand against this atrocity. MONSTERS.
“NO MATTER WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT STATES. THE CONSTITUTION MEANS NOTHING.”
Bro be glow’in and troll’in.
Egypt has hundreds of trucks with food and water, humanitarian aide, on the border of Gaza. Israel has bombed the Haifa crossing to stop this aid getting to the people of Gaza. MONSTERS.
Israel are occupying the country Palestine. This means that Israel is already in an offensive stance, stating that Israel has the right to defend itself is beyond criminal. The occupied people have the right to defend themselves not the occupier.
Up is Down, Black is White, its all just big lies after big lies.