President Biden said Wednesday that he was worried about the prospect of Congress authorizing more Ukraine aid after Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) was removed as speaker of the House.
“It does worry me,” Biden said. “But I know there are a majority of members of the House and Senate, in both parties, who have said that they support funding Ukraine.”
While Biden is correct that the majority of Congress still supports the proxy war, House Republicans who oppose arming Ukraine do have significant power, as demonstrated by the ouster of McCarthy. Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) launched the effort over allegations that a secret deal was cut with Democrats to bring new Ukraine aid to the floor for a vote after it was stripped from a stopgap funding bill.
One of the Republicans who announced he’s running for speaker, Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), has said he’s opposed to additional funding for Ukraine. Jordan has voted against aid for Ukraine going back to the $40 billion package in May 2022, the only stand-alone Ukraine aid bill.
Because of his position, Jordan has earned a grade of “F” from Republicans for Ukraine, a neoconservative project that was launched to rally GOP support for the proxy war. Rep. Steve Scalise (R-LA) has also announced his intention to run for speaker. Scalise has supported arming Ukraine, earning himself a grade of “B” from Republicans for Ukraine.
Republicans are planning to hold a speaker election on October 11. According to Bloomberg, all legislative action is likely to halt until then, meaning President Biden won’t get the additional $24 billion he is seeking to spend on the war in the meantime.
The president said that he will soon deliver another speech on why the US should continue to fuel the war. “I’m going to make the argument that it’s overwhelmingly in the interests of the United States of America that Ukraine succeed,” Biden said. “I don’t think we should let gamesmanship get in the way of blocking it.”
Biden also hinted that he may have another way to get the money. “There is another means by which we may be able to find funding, but I’m not going to get into that right now,” he said.
Succeed at what?
The U.S. and NATO will never succeed in Ukraine against Russia without completely destroying Russia, and most sane people(not a lot at present) know what the consequences of that will be, mushroom clouds on steroids.
Oh, yes. Here comes the tankies with their “mushroom cloud” threats. What makes you think their nukes even work, Bill? (Not much evidence ANY of their s**t works. They’re still relying on meat wave attacks.)
Well, those weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed to work quite well Irrational One. With at least 75 years to perfect much stronger bombs, I would tend to think they would work even better as far as killing people. But then again Irrational One, I don’t want to really find out.
If only Biden and Congress would worry about average Americans instead of worrying about extending a proxy war that most Americans don’t want or even understand and spending money we don’t have. (our entire nation’s annual GDP will soon just go into the INTEREST on these loans) An F grade from the MIC is an A for peace. Stop the war machine!
Excellent but wishful thinking. We need more butter then guns. Our elected Government believes the opposite.
We need to pay down our national debt of $33 Trillion as that will be our downfall.
I neither borrowed the money nor cosigned the loan. The politicians who borrowed the money are the ones who owe it.
Precisely. A Constitution of No Authority is how Spooner put it, I believe.
Well whether you like it or not, if you are a citizen and taxpayer in the U.S. you are on the hook to pay back the debt. The people elected the politicians that vote for the spending.
“The people” did no such thing.
The current president received the votes of about 25% of the US population, which is fairly typical as such things go. About half of US “citizens and taxpayers” either choose not to vote or are forbidden to vote.
Yes, they are all “on the hook” for the politicians’ debt — if they choose to pay it or can be forced to do so. But they don’t owe it, because they didn’t borrow it.
Ultimately it is the citizens of America who get the government they deserve either through apathy or stupidity.
“Democracy is a theory of government whereby you give the people what they want, and you give it to them good and hard.”
–H.L. Mencken
Who ever may owe it, it’s China that is owed. This explains the rush to war with China.
China holds about 2.6% of US government debt and has been drawing down those holdings for some time. Japan is owed far more.
Like ya can tell the diff… Oops, nevermind.
Who exactly did they borrow it from, if I may enquire.
You’ll have to enquire of someone else. It’s such a complicated scam that I can barely keep it halfway straight myself, let alone explain it to anyone else.
But at the bottom of the matter, the collateral is “we’ll beat it out of our serfs, with interest … someday.”
But we’re on the hook for it, regardless.
For certain meanings of “we,” maybe.
As it will impact the public at large like the blast radius of a nuclear bomb.. That kinda “we”.
Nah,they will just keep on printing worthless currency.
And that will bring about the downfall.
I’m old enough to remember when people actually talked about paying down the debt, but I haven’t heard that mentioned in years.
He who repudiates first repudiates best.
No butter. But they’ll have plenty of bugs and soy for us soon enough!
“our entire nation’s annual GDP will soon just go into the INTEREST on these loans”
For certain definitions of “soon.”
As of the second quarter of 2023, the entire US government debt is about 1.2 times GDP.
The current US bond yield is at at close to 5%, so if every bond out there had been sold recently (which is not the case), next year the interest on US government debt would come to about 4% of US GDP.
They never did and never will. They only “worry” about how to start a war or make it last. …My bad. …I got it wrong. Sorry. They’re a bit more worried that they might have bitten more than they can chew. (Sarcasm)
Billions for Ukraine. Pennies for Lahaina and East Palestine.
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/power-switch/2023/09/28/fema-cuts-disaster-aid-ahead-of-shutdown-00118766
Yep. Freaking Republicans killing the FEMA budget. So, you’re voting Dem next time?
I’m an independent. The Uniparty can suck it.
“(our entire nation’s annual GDP will soon just go into the INTEREST on these loans)”
Estimated US GDP in 2023: $26.24 Trillion
Estimated total net interest on the national debt in 2023: $663 Billion
663B ÷ 26.24T = 0.025 = 2.5%
Maybe US government can borrow more but what they want to achieve with all those borrowed money? Where they plan to invest those borrowed billions? Into Ukrainian project? Why they are so reluctant to show their business plan? Why no one allowed to control their investments? It smells of corruption.
I was just correcting the entirely mistaken claim by the original poster. Showing the math.
The borrowing is in support of government activity across the board.
A huge portion of the debt incurred in the last 5 years was due to the COVID bailouts. I consider all but the last of those to have been well spent. But the military budget is out of control. We should also deweaponize the USAID budget.
I don’t carry water for Republicans, but my understanding of their budget appeal was that at least on the surface it was a fairly reasonable “let’s go back to pre-COVID spending levels.”
You’re probably right.
I think we’re in a period of history that has no precedent. We aren’t losing the bulk of our jobs to China. We’re losing them to advances in technology. Both Parties have outdated ideas about how to address that. If we do create new jobs, spending has to increase. But that won’t work forever. If we don’t create new jobs, unemployment gets bad.
Gene Roddenberry spent a lot of time thinking about this. In the world of Star Trek, people only worked if they wanted to. The motivation was to make a difference rather than to make more money. But I’m not sure that model will ever work in real life.
I mentioned something similar to this in another forum shortly after Trump restructured the income tax. My comment was censored because nobody believed me, despite a forecast I produced from the Congressional Budget Office.
Yeah, people tend to cling stubbornly to the things they believe, and facts very often don’t budge them at all.
Ukraine has a good chance to succeed at getting rid of pro-American neo-Nazi regime already next year.
McCarthy is sacked… next in line is Biden and Trump… US needs a regime change…!
Trump should use his present grip on the Republican party constituancy to leverage a Jim Jordan Speakership.
Don’t you mean Gym Jordan?
We may have to start thinking in tactical Leninist terms. Make them destroy each other.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/after-white-house-trump-allegedly-discussed-potentially-sensitive/story?id=103760456
How long will his “leverage” last, do you think?
Populism is growing: and, will last until RObespierre has guillotined all the oligarchs.
Biden said. “But I know there are a majority of members of the House and Senate, in both parties, who have said that they support funding Ukraine.”
oh don’t forget about poor Taiwan, what would they ever do without us. i mean US.
never mind americans, right?
Jim Jordan as Speaker. Surely my cup runneth over. What a doofus?
One aspect of the game could be to delay spending by technicality. With Jordan in the race, that probably becomes more likely.
Scalice voted for the $40 billion. He will probably be voted in.
Do the math; 25% max are democrats x 77% support war = 19,5% of voters.
I oppose this war. But your math is misleading. There are a LOT of Republican voters who also support the war.
But the polls do suggest that a majority of Americans do NOT .
Actually, there was one outlier poll, perhaps poorly written, that suggested that a very small majority of voters opposed “more aid” to the Ukraine. More recent polling, and the bulk of the polling, shows that most voters support continued aid, at least at the current levels.
We must be looking at different polls.
Here’s the first review that came up on Google. It shows only 41% support more military aid to Ukraine.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-public-support-declines-arming-ukraine-reutersipsos-2023-10-05/
Even that poll shows that a plurality support further military aid, as only 35 per cent oppose it and the rest are not sure.
And here’s another one finding that 54 per cent favor it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-americans-aid-poll-2023-09-10/
And the Washingto Post ran a poll this week showing over 60 per cent favored further military aid.
Make him use his “other means”. Then it’s all on the White House.
There’s a reason Biden doesn’t want to elaborate on what the “other means” are. But he is essentially saying that he will defy the authority of the Legislature to hold the purse strings.
This would create an opportunity for the Legislature to reclaim its Constitutional authority. But I’m not sure anyone there has the backbone to do it.
Speaker Jim Jordan.
He’s not, actually. From what I have read, there is plenty of “wiggle room” in any number of laws, as already written, passed by Congress, and on the books, giving Biden the authority to keep the war going, at least in the short to medium term. And that is without any new grants of aid from Congress. This, I believe, is what Biden is referring to.
From a legalistic point of view, I think you’re right. But these would still be the actions of a President intent on defying the authority of the Legislature to hold the purse strings, and I believe it was a mistake for the Legislature to give the Executive branch so much “wiggle room”.
” a majority of members of the House and Senate, in both parties, who have said that they support funding Ukraine.” Have they asked their constituents? Voters take note. They support war without asking you?
One Senator actually told me he would support the war for the usual emotional reasons. I may write him back to find out if he has even heard of the Minsk agreements.
I am not convinced that many of our Legislators have a working comprehension of how this war started… or the role Biden played in 2014.
According to Garland Nixon: How do you expose a narcissist? You tell them “NO!” I deduce that the same applies to a Neocon/Neolib. Tell them “NO MORE WAR!” Then see what happens. (Sarcasm)
Typical Joe, worried about ad for Ukraine while not carrying at all about the invasion at the Southern Border of the U.S. P.O.S.
It may be that, before long, the USA becomes so thoroughly unliveable (socially, politically, economically) that people in the United Mexican States, the Republic of Honduras, and elsewhere in Central America find themselves better off where they are.
If I weren’t headed toward the endgame of my life, I would be looking around to some more livable place in the world because you are probably right, the U.S. will become unlivable for all other than the 1% ers.
I agree ! But the sad thing is, I don’t know where there is to live that isn’t touched or tainted by economic or military strife.
A year or two back, the nice cashier at Costco asked if I found everything all right. I replied that I wished they sold Kirkland-brand spaceships, so’s I could leave this idiot planet and go live elsewhere. I still feel that way.
Lol, yea they’re aren’t many places of refuge unless you’re one of the so called elites that have hideouts around the world. They’ll eventually get their just reward.
We could send our oligarchs to South and Central America, where they would feel right at home. But then they’d become our southern neighbors’ problem……..
Better to ship them to an asteroid.
Earlier in the week, Biden said “I can’t believe those who supported Ukraine, (the) overwhelming majority of the House and Senate, Democrat and Republican, will, for pure political purposes, let more people die needlessly in Ukraine.”
Somebody must have mentioned that the indisputable consequence of extending an unwinnable war is that MORE people will die needlessly in Ukraine.
So, now he’s saying “I’m going to make the argument that it’s overwhelmingly in the interests of the United States of America that Ukraine succeed,”. This should be interesting because I don’t think he can make a convincing argument without 𝘩𝘺𝘱𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘻𝘪𝘯𝘨 that Putin is using Ukraine as a stepping stone towards greater conquest. But that’s getting harder to do when other countries such as Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, and England are talking about ending weapons support for Ukraine and/or closing their borders to refugees.
They not only closing their borders to refugees from Ukraine, they are planning to send them back. Poland already started the process. The reason is: Ukraine is short of cannon fodder. Kiev regime doesn’t allow even women to leave the country.
Ukraine’s Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze:
“We are interested in getting things sorted out so American democracy can function”
They are such goddamn arrogant bastards. This is what they say about YOUR country. THEY want to “sort things out” so that American “democracy” can function. It only functions if they get free money. You need to be sorted out by them.
The country that has banned opposition parties, banned all opposition media, put all TV news on a government-controlled channel, constantly arrests dissenters, beats up, kidnaps and kills people like a mayor who reached out to the Russians for safe passage for civilians, and has a government-connected kill list where they cross out foreigners they murder, like Duginova.
Ukraine has a “blacklist” that includes Rand Paul (for asking for oversight of the money given to Ukraine, which was opposed by the Biden regime), Glenn Greenwald, Tucker Carlson, Tulsi Gabbard, geopolitical analyst Edward Luttwak, political scientist John Mearsheimer, and others.
But they want to sort out your democracy for you, inferior American. Don’t you know Ukraine is fighting for the entire world’s democracy? How dare you stand in the way? More money! Now!
“WE’LL NEVER PAY IT BACK!”
–Greek World Cup fans to German fans, 2014
The truth is, the US debt cannot be paid back, certainly not by the citizenry. It’s mathematically impossible, assuming the currency isn’t massively inflated. But then, what good would it do? Just declare bankruptcy, hold an asset fire sale, debt-holders get shafted, end of story.
“Biden also hinted that he may have another way to get the money. “There is another means by which we may be able to find funding, but I’m not going to get into that right now,” he said.”
Oh goody. Maybe some sales of arms to Iran? Or the CIA flooding rural America with even more opioids and sending the proceeds to Kiev?
Demented Joe Biden: “I don’t think we should let gamesmanship get in the way of blocking it (i.e., funding for the US-installed Nazi Regime in Kiev).”
Personally, I don’t think we should let anything get in the way of blocking it. As long as someone, anyone, for any reason whatsoever blocks it.
The Congress of the United States, in possibly its finest hour, brought an end to America’s monumental Bungle in the Jungle (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos) by simply cutting off funding for it in 1975. Not that I expect the slightest principled anti-war courage from those motherless cretins Mark Twain called “America’s only native criminal class” but, still, if they just keep haggling and blocking long enough then — purely through accident and sheer exhaustion — the “power of the purse” (when empty) could accomplish what our Founding Oligarchs intended that it should: namely, deny the Executive Branch its favorite war toy.
And then I woke up . . .
Borrell: EU not able to replace US help for Ukraine.
The European Union is not able to replace U.S. support for Ukraine, should this fall away in the future, EU’s top diplomat, Josep Borrell, said on Oct. 5.
The Foundation to Battle Injustice has collected evidence of the involvement of the Ukrainian government and a shadowy US arms dealer in organizing the reselling of Western weapons on the black market.
According to former Ukrainian Defense Ministry informants, the Foundation to Battle Injustice identified which NATO weapons are being resold by the Ukrainian government and revealed the scale and routes of the bloody business.
What the devil is he drooling about now?
“New Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chair Supports Blocking Portion of Aid to Egypt”
You just can’t make this crap up. We want to hold up military aid to Egypt because of alleged human rights abuses, but somehow don’t want to apply the same criteria to the Nazi regime in Kiev?
God, what a frigging wreck of a country we have become. Sickening.
And sucking up to the Saudi butchers (literally) so they will play nice with the apartheid practicing Israelis.
And did you notice that they want to stop $200 million of the $1.3 billion to Egypt? And did they tell them the abuse must stop? Or is that just what they have to pay annually? Sickening is just too kind of a word.
Well, I guess we should all hope Jordan becomes speaker then. I don’t support sending another penny or another bullet to Ukraine, UNTIL AFTER they reopen negotiations, intermediaried by an independent third power (NOT NATO, or a servile lapdog to NATO, like Australia or Japan), and request a ceasefire.
If Zelensky refuses, and insists on continuing the fight, then he is on his own.
It’s kind of a stretch to say that Gaetz “launched” his motion to vacate McCarthy based on the alleged secret deal McC made with Biden over the Ukraine. Gaetz himself barely mentioned that factor, instead focusing on the fact of a CR itself, on the lack of single subject bills, on the overall spending amounts, on the “suspension” of the rules, and so on. Moreover, Gaetz was on record as being opposed to McC at least as far back as January, when he held up his election for 15 votes. At that time, aid to the Ukraine was not even mentioned as being part of the reason.
I have not heard any of the other “great eight” Repub dissenters emphasize the aid to the Ukraine either.
I think there are far more plausible explanations for this week’s events than opposition to the aid to the Ukraine.
The German Minister of Foreign Affairs, Annalena Baerbock, promised that Russian territories will soon be part of the EU. This is a declaration of war?
The Nazi’s are again on Russia’s border committing war crimes as they did in WW2. Ethnic cleansing and genocide. Has Germany learnt nothing from the Holocaust?