The US has approved the shipment of Lockheed Martin-made F-16 fighter jets from the Netherlands and Denmark to Ukraine as soon as the first batch of Ukrainian pilots complete training, which won’t happen until next year.
A US official told Reuters on Thursday that Secretary of State Antony Blinken provided the approval in a letter to Danish and Dutch officials.
“I am writing to express the United States’ full support for both the transfer of F-16 fighter aircraft to Ukraine and for the training of Ukrainian pilots by qualified F-16 instructors,” the letter reads.
Blinken added that the approval would allow Ukraine to take “full advantage of its new capabilities as soon as the first set of pilots complete their training.”
The Washington Post recently reported that the first round of training will only involve six Ukrainian pilots. They are taking four months of English classes in the UK, followed by six months of combat training that is scheduled to start in January.
A Ukrainian Air Force spokesman has said Kyiv has given up hope that it will be able to use F-16s against Russian forces this year. While Ukrainian officials have been demanding the fighter jets, US officials have downplayed their effectiveness, saying they won’t make much of a difference due to Russia’s extensive air defenses.
losing, its like winning, only not. the ukraine army is all but finished. utterly overpriced logistics/support FAIL, in so many ways. Western europe better be glad russia didn’t decide to annex them.
Your comment calls for a Jack Handy quote:
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself. Basically, it’s made up of two separate words — ‘mank’ and ‘ind.’ What do these words mean? It’s a mystery, and that’s why so is mankind.
“mank” = Adjective. mank (not comparable) (Britain, slang, originally Polari) Disgusting, repulsive.
“ind” = industries.
so by definition; mankind = disgusting industries
One with a knife gets the best slice.
Except that the Ukes are advancing toward Tokmak. (But you keep lying to yourself.)
The F-16 will be the first nuclear capable weapons system introduced into the Russia/Ukraine conflict. Russia will have to presume every F-16 is armed with nuclear weapons because they would have no way to verify it said F-16 had been modified to prevent arming with nuclear weapons. The Russian military has coordinated air defenses that the West can only envy so they will not be a ‘game-changer’ and they will arrive on the battlefield long after the war is over. It is a way to fund more defense spending to replace those end-of-service jets by giving them at full price instead of the nearly-worn-out surplus they are. In any case, they are an unnecessary provocation.
“The F-16 will be the first nuclear capable weapons system introduced into the Russia/Ukraine conflict.”
Not even close.
True enough. the Russians have been using their heavy bombers from the start of the war.
And yet, you can’t name a nuclear capable weapons system already in the Ukraine.
How about the M777 155mm howitzer?
And every remaining fixed-wing Ukrainian combat aircraft, however many that might happen to be?
And any Cessnas or Piper Cubs that happen to by sitting around?
The W48 was an American nuclear artillery shell, capable of being fired from any standard 155-millimetre (6.1 in) howitzer. A tactical nuclear weapon, it was manufactured starting in 1963, and all units were retired in 1992. Cessnas or Piper Cubs? Put the drugs down. Why are you so eager for nuclear war? Just because your life is so miserable doesn’t mean everyone else wants to die in a nuclear holocaust.
“all units were retired in 1992”
Do you really believe everything the US regime says?
Do you really think the US regime would permanently set aside the ability to launch a tactical nuclear weapon from its primary artillery pieces?
I’m not at all eager for nuclear war. I just don’t pretend that there’s something unique about the F-16 in terms of being “nuclear capable.” My wife’s Honda CR-V is “nuclear capable.”
I believe what is written by Wikipedia more than I believe anything you write. Get over yourself.
The US doesn’t need any additional nuclear capabilities. (Subs can do whatever job the US requires.) Tankies are trying to justify Putin’s threats of nuclear war. (PUTIN is the only one threatening nuclear war.)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1803909/vladimir-putin-sergei-lavrov-russia-nuclear-weapons-nato
HIMARS can be nuclear tipped. English cruise missiles as well.
Why would they need English classes? Just switch the buttons to Ukrainian and find an Ukrainian origin us instructor. They r probably stalling.
Agreed. Blinken (empty eyes) STAMPING: “APPROVE, APPROVE, APPROVE,… WAIT, … What’s this?” …”…ANTNY, these are the F16s we’re PREPARING to help Zelensky politically BUT WAITING for a FALSE FLAG HYSTERIA to REALLY APPROVE. Know Wat I’m Sayin?” Blinken (with eyes even more empty than before) STAMPS: Okay, TORIA, APPROVE! (Wasting both our time Sarcasm)
I’ve read, but don’t know if true, one of the reasons for the stall is that Pentagon is not happy some of these weapons systems are being shown as very vulnerable to Russian counters … kind of dampens sales when you see the stuff get destroyed so easily.
On the other hand, the political types are on the hook to deliver the goods or be attacked for stalling and “leaving allies defenseless” … so delivering late after its all over may be a compromise.
The CIA knew the end result of the war in Ukraine before it started. Stalling they are ……
An f-16 training plan for UA pilots in the U.S. has yet to be established, and probably never will be.. Who exactly is going to train these pilots, and when? 404 might not even exist next year..
That old junk probably have English-speaking onboard computer with no option to switch to Russian.
Oh, wait.
Meanwhile in the chess game that sees a US low class checkers team facing eastern Eurasian chess masters;
China sent its defense minister to Belarus as a counter to unprovoked worldwide US attacks on the environment and humanity, which are slowly being throttled. China, along with Korea and Iran, obviously appreciate Russia holding back western barbarians in Ukraine as it moves a chess piece in companion with the Russian/Chinese naval fleets patrolling the Pacific.
“The purpose of my visit to Belarus is the implementation of important agreements at the level of heads of state and further strengthening of bilateral military cooperation,” Li said.
“Belarus aspires to become a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation and the BRICS mechanism, which indicates its desire to strengthen cooperation with like-minded countries. This is especially important for maintaining the multilateral system and a multipolar world, analysts pointed out.” Global Times, Aug 18, 2023
I don’t see an need for Belarus to join SCO. They aren’t in any danger from the Anglo-American empire. For Persians it was essential, critical even. Same with BRICS. Oh course Belarus can if they want to.
Belarus can if their imperial master, Russia, tells them to.
Russia is defending Eurasia from US and European barbarians seeking to weaken and divide Russia into more manageable units, similar to Yugoslavian break up. Holding back thirty plus greedy colonial powers is a tough job for Russia alone.
“The purpose of my visit to Belarus is the implementation of important agreements at the level of heads of state and further strengthening of bilateral military cooperation,” Li said.
Tankie talking points.
The president of the United States continues to display cowardice, preferring to let the Ukrainian people fight the war that he helped Obama et al provoke.
Profiles in cowardice, oh yeah…….
100% correct.
I would love to have some real fact-finding done regarding the operational state of these F-16 donor aircraft. They are only available because they are being replaced in service by new aircraft, and like all militaries, equipment in the process of being phased out is not well maintained; scheduled maintenance gets deferred or cancelled, and the aircraft in the worst condition gets retired first. I suspect every one of these donor craft will need an extensive overhaul before being flyable again. Also, what models are these, and what customized equipment by nation does each contain? Has anyone verified that regardless of nation of origin, these are all similarly equipped and match the models the 6 gallant Ukrainian flyboys are currently being trained on? Because, given the level of incompetence in training that the US and NATO has demonstrated to date (and based on their incompetence shown in “training” the Afghans and Iraqis) I think a simple check like that might be beyond their limited ability.
Seymour Hersh available? We could use him on this.
Good comment. Thanks for sharing it.
When the first proposals for giving Ukraine Western fighter planes the concern was that these planes contain secret aids for flying and fighting which must not fall into the hands of the Russians. The only place where expertise was available to do fix this was and still is at the US Ramstein air force base in Germany.
Looks like Denmark wants to dump some old junk on Ukraine and replace them with new planes.
Ukraine has been really useful to have them as a way to modernize various militaries by swapping out old armaments for new brand new stuff.
We will soon read all sorts of gushing stories about how replacing broken windows is good for the economy (broken window fallacy) in our wonderful MSM reporting.
It’s been a christmas present for many NATO countries, especially the former eastern bloc ones; for years, they have resisted spending money on new western equipment, pretending that their soviet-era junk was still serviceable; now, they can dump all that old junk off on Ukraine, and get either free or very discounted new equipment from the USA and Germany in exchange.
Slovenia, for example; sends Ukraine 30-odd obsolete M55s tanks that were retired and sitting in a warehouse for 15 years – Slovenia has been trying for years, but couldn’t sell them to anyone at any price; but now, they can gift them to Ukraine (and probably get “assistance” in paying for shipping) AND receive 40 brand new modern high mobility heavy tactical trucks from Germany for free in exchange. What a great deal, and what wonderful supporters of “freedom” the slovenians are! Everyone should be so generous!
And, we’re doing the same thing, scouring depots and warehouses for old crap we don’t want anyway, generously giving it to Ukraine, then going to congress and asking for funding to “replace all this great stuff” with much more expensive, even “greater” stuff.
That’s really the bottom line.
For 20-odd years, the US MIC had Iraq and Afghanistan as profit centers. Once those two were over, they had to go looking for a new Enemy of the Week to justify the American taxpayer buying more of their stuff, and Russia is the perennial favorite Enemy of the Week.
China is jealous.
China is trying to hold its creaking and cracking system together for long enough to benefit when the fading US and Russian empires finally keel over and die for real.
There’s not really a Russian Empire left.
Well, not much of one. But Putin always seems to have seen his job as preserving what was left of it. Invading, conquering, annexing, and installing quislings in Chechnya, for example. Ensuring that Belarus, Ukraine, and a few central Asian former Soviet republics remained imperial satrapies.
After the Chechnya wars, he limited himself for a long time to quick slap-downs of attempts to eat away at the empire’s edges (e.g. giving Georgia what-for over Abkhazia and South Ossetia), and supporting the satraps whenever their populations got restive (e.g. Belarus, Kazakhstan).
But the US coup in Ukraine created several situations he understandably considered intolerable. Ukraine proper, maybe he could let go at least temporarily, but certainly not Crimea. And ultimately, after eight years of proxy war in the Donbas threatened to peter out, he decided it was time to at least give Ukraine a memorable spanking.
When I was in second grade, I was a little hellion and my teacher was a sweet old lady — Mrs. West. Because I was a hellion, she had occasion to take me out in the hall for a paddling. But because she was an old lady using a ping-pong paddle, I couldn’t help myself. It tickled. I broke out laughing. So I got sent to the principal’s office. HIS paddle didn’t make me laugh. The Russian armed forces are by no means Mrs. West. But they turned out to not be the principal either.
Due to greed and over reach they will pick on the wrong “enemy of the week”
Sooner or later, yes.
And I wouldn’t bet money against sooner.
Yep. The greatest con ever. Soviet equipment is superior. Getting your new vassal states to burn it is a best way to demilitarize them and sale them useless Pentagon junk.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4015813-russia-warns-f16s-ukraine-nato/
Seems like the Russians know something you don’t.
Bless your heart!
You really need to read your links.
The first line explains why they are a issue, increased NATO involvement, not that they are worried about them helping Ukraine in battle.
Everyone, except you, expects those plans to be shot down within hours if they engage them in battle if they even get there next Spring and they are still fighting.
No. They are afraid of the F-16s and they are creating an excuse for their fear (“NATO pilots”) so they can threaten escalation. Not much for nuance are you?
Do you have evidence for this convoluted theory of yours?
Or is this just your own “special” analysis?
You do know when we see such nonsence as you just shared, it is a insight into your really “special” thinking process which plays into why most here make fun of you?
Do share more; tell us all how Ukraine is actually winning this and are currently pushing Russia back.
We need a weekend laugh.
1) Find a map with the Russian/Ukrainian front lines before the counteroffensive began.
2) Find a map of the current front lines (Aug 19, 2023)
3) Find Robotyne on said map.
3) Find Urozhaine on said map.
4) Take off your tankie goggles. (Maybe that should be first?)
5) Compare the front lines from before and now.
Ukraine has not breached the first of three defensive lines that Russia has built.
That is what the maps show and everyone from WaPo, NYT, WSJ plus the rest of MSM is reporting.
Please share a credible source.
Voices are not credible.
Post your maps and then I’ll post mine; or go the f**k outside and enjoy the day.
I do not care what your fevered mind has discerned.
Share some credible media sources , even European ones, that Ukraine’s offensive is achieving what you are claiming.
Can’t post any of your own maps? (Didn’t think so.)
Your analysis is wrong.
We both know MSM is repleat with story after story their Offensive has failed.
Other than Joe Biden who claims Russia has lost, please provide a few credible sources that agree with your analysis.
There has to be a few media outlets that share your analysis, isn’t there?
(You still didn’t provide any “proof” of your own that we are wrong.)
This website?
Is this blog and the myriad of writers that publish here good enough?
Do you even read anything here that agrees with you?
Please share a simple website, Youtube channel perhaps or a MSNBC show or personality you visit that has helped form your analysis (that hopefully won’t be neocon ones like those our mod shared with his personal list uninvited).
I’ll share a Youtube one of mine that I watch; John Mearsheimer Official. I don’t quite agree fully with his realist school but he does have a good grasp on the war.
ATP Geo politics on YouTube is a pretty reliable source of daily updates on the Ukrainian front. (He takes maps from sources both positive for Ukraine, positive for Russia, and neutral and post them on his own map. (Caution: he also uses ISW as a source so don’t get your panties in a bunch.)
I believe Mearsheimer said, “If you really want to wreck Russia, what you should do is to encourage it to try to conquer Ukraine. Putin is too smart for that”.
Was he having a bad day that day?
Ukraine making progress in counteroffensive, U.S. officials say
Ukraine’s counteroffensive inches forward, with the help of cluster bombs
Ukraine’s counter-offensive is making progress, slowly
Hahaha. Yes, Thomas! Stop doing their homework for them!
Stop it Knapp.
You are a blog moderator repeating nonsence.
The site that pays you for a minimum wage moderation job disagrees with you.
Someone shared you like to use and repeat neocon sources and we just saw a example of that.
Perhaps when you get a job as a writer not a blog moderator you might do better but neocon sources?
CNN? The Economist?
How about a White House press release?
I’m actually amazed a employee of this blog, even a lowly moderator, would use such embarrassing sources.
Translation:
You asked for something. You got what you asked for. Which gives you an excuse to whine about it.
I don’t make minimum wage. I refused to accept that much.
I’ve got some expired McDonalds coupons, will those work for donations as this site begs for your wages?
During most fundraisers, I donate back a little of what they pay me. Thanks for the reminder, just took care of that.
But a cautionary note. Among the things prohibited by our guidelines:
—–
ATTACKS ON ANTIWAR.COM ITSELF — Attempts to hack or otherwise technically damage the site are obviously forbidden, as are non-technical attempts to damage our ability to operate (including our ability to raise funds) and personal abuse of Antiwar.com’s writers and staff. If you don’t want to support Antiwar.com, don’t support Antiwar.com. If you want to ask others to not support Antiwar.com, ask them somewhere else. Our willingness to host reader discussions is not a suicide pact.
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Because I am an active commenter, I don’t enforce the “personal abuse” guideline where I am the target of said abuse. But if you downtalk our fundraising again, you’re out of here.
Dude you do realize how you act impacts stuff? No one cares when you post but this constant back and forth you engage in with that mod badge does upset quite a few.
You even wanted my real name one day when you were trolling me which kind of precludes me now from any activity that would share it.
I’m even afraid to get on your mailing list little alone do anything else that would have my name on it given how you act sometimes.
I noticed you have someone else upset at you today, do it isn’t just me today, as I was for you stepping in with your sources when I really wanted to understand where the person I was conversing with was coming from.
His sources, who he was watching on Youtube, his favorite network, print, etc. so I could understand how he was forming his analysis not who you used to form your’s which I already knew or could guess.
“You even wanted my real name one day when you were trolling me”
I have never asked you for your “real name.” I did note, when you criticized someone for using a pseudonym, that you did also. Pseudonyms are fine here.
“I’m even afraid to get on your mailing list”
If you mean Antiwar.com’s mailing list, I do not operate or have access to that list, nor do I want to.
If “quite a few” people are “upset” that, like other commenters, I comment, then “quite a few” people are looking very hard for something, anything to be “upset” about.
I do not care.
Your constant trolling of quite a few of us while begging for your wages shows you have issues and this site has a strange business model that only hapless Libertarians would employ.
Final opportunity to knock it off.
Knock what off?
Expressing my view that you troll me and others on this site?
Or expressing my view that it is a strange business model to have a paid employee doing that as the moderator while asking for donations to keep the server (or service) going, little alone your modest wages?
Which one do you want me to self- censor?
No one cares when you contribute but when you troll?
You believe yourself a wordsmith so you know of what you do, don’t you?
The latter.
As you well knew when you decided to see if a third strike wouldn’t bring the results I warned you it would bring.
Goodbye.
Stop whining! Any “proof” anyone provides will be declared — by you — as being MSM.
Tankie behavior. (And yes, you continue to fit the definition of tankie.)
“The site that pays you for a minimum wage moderation job disagrees with you.”
“Perhaps when you get a job as a writer not a blog moderator you might do better but neocon sources?”
Wow!!! How condescending. You must be very privileged.
So privileged that he managed to get banned from commenting here. But not for trying unsuccessfully to get my goat.
You are asking to do a size contest? How old are you?
Not adding anything to the discussion as usual.
Avoiding questions as usual.
Nope. Just not gonna play those games. Gonna question me, gotta put up is shut up. Including you, jaggoff.
Lol. Nailed it.
Apparently, the “everyone” you speak of has not heard of the AMRAAM. Perhaps they can use the “Google Machine” and find out what I already know?
Your ignorance is frustrating but not unexpected.
Please share how these planes will cause Ukraine to win?
You just claimed you “already know” (voices?) that unlike everyone credible shares (almost immediate loss) these will turn the tide from losing to pushing Russia out.
Share what the voices tell you please.
Ukraine is already “winning”. The F-16s with AMRAAM can assist with the continuing advance.
Please share a credible source for that.
The voices do not count.
Voices again? He must have skipped his meds again.
Probably sold them again .
Cheetos and copious amounts of sugary soda does not come cheap for obese shut-ins.
The F-16s are unlikely to have much impact. The age of manned fixed-wing aircraft is probably over, and certainly nearly over. Air defenses are too good, and unmanned drone swarms or missiles are both cheaper than manned aircraft/trained pilots, and more likely to get things done.
The US military-industrial complex is mostly just hoping to replace the old F-16s with new F-35s before the buyers who “donate” their F-16s figure that out.
I agree F-35 is garbage but I think the jury is still out on fixed-wing aircraft. (I’m sure the move toward unmanned aircraft will be accelerated by this war but I’d have to see an equal-peer conflict to stick-a-fork in fixed-wing fighter/attack aircraft.)
It costs $5.6 million to train a pilot to fly a $27 million F-16. It takes one incident to lose both the pilot and the airplane.
The larger drone prices are comparable to fighter/attack aircraft prices, but that pilot you spent millions of dollars and many months training isn’t nearly as exposed to sudden death. Smaller kamikaze drones like the Switchblade are in the sub-$10,000 dollar range.
Tomahawk missiles cost a million bucks a pop and only get used once, but the launchers and crews are a lot less vulnerable.
These 6 pilots will be the first of pilots parachuting out of the shut-downed F-16 jets if not killed by Russian S-400….!
If any of it ever makes to Ukraine, I’d eject right after take off in their place.
The S-400 system has the radar signature of F-16 and numerous other western jets. It can fire its missiles hundreds of kilometers away, a lot longer than any of F-16 missiles can reach the S-400 batteries first….!
Never mentioned in the mainstream and rarely here, how much will each F16 cost to fly and how many equivalent planes does Russia have? The CNN warmongers and Ukraine officials are basically saying America must pay billions like we haven’t even begun paying, for something that will make no difference at all, just to see our best stuff blown up within days.
In all fairness, the “cost” to operate the F-16 fleet for Ukraine will be absorbed into NATO. (NATO cost/benefit analysis would include the savings in a destroyed/depleted Russia.)
So which NATO nation(s) have volunteered to pay to maintain F16s for Ukraine? Any, or just a few nations willing to donate their worn out planes?
The Russians seem worried about those “worn out” planes…
The US seems worried about them too. But for different reasons.
While Ukrainian officials have been demanding the fighter jets, US officials have downplayed their effectiveness, saying they won’t make much of a difference due to Russia’s extensive air defenses.
Well, we’re gonna see aren’t we?
When I say worn out I don’t mean those planes can’t do anything, I mean they’ll cost a lot just to keep them from cratering into the ground even free from enemy fire. You can’t just pull over an F16 to look under the hood and wiggle wires.
The Russians have about a thousand 4th-generation fighters, plenty of experienced pilots and an advanced and intact air defense system. It’s difficult to imagine that a comparative handful of F16s, flown by inexperienced pilots, can make any significant difference.
Strictly speaking, “The Russians” have at least four and a half thousand “4th-generation fighters”, at least half of which are now upgraded with 5th-generation systems.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
The F-16s also need a whole ecosystem, with the bases shaped around them, with special mechanics and more. I guess the mechanics will be Westerners. But you still need the bases, and these will be bombed.
Add some Gripens into that thought.
https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainians-already-undergoing-training-swedish-134506364.html
Naturally, but have them shot down so they order more. It’s just clearing old inventory.
“US Approves Sending F-16s from Denmark and Netherlands to Ukraine”
Where will they get the pilots. The Ukrainians are so uneducated they have to study English for 4 months prior to any flight training.
Another failed Joey Biden program.
How does someone from eastern Europe not knowing English equate to being “uneducated?”
How many languages from that region do you speak? Or are you “uneducated” too?
I speak Four languages and I have a working knowledge of 2 more.
Tell us how many languages you speak Mr. Knapp.
I’m fluent in English. I used to be reasonably fluent in Spanish (shacking up with my high school Spanish teacher after graduation helped with that), but it’s been so long since I’ve used it daily that I’ve become rusty.
Around the world, about 7,000 languages are spoken. Does your ignorance of 6,994 of them mean you’re “uneducated?”
I rest my case! You don’t know what you don’t know!
Why don’t they sent F-35s? Don’t they want to win?
Because the whole point is to SELL F-35s to the regimes that are DONATING the F-16s to Ukraine. Ukraine can’t afford to buy F-35s. They’re the kids wearing the clothes you dropped off at Goodwill in anticipation of your next visit to The Gap.