President Biden on Friday defended his decision to arm Ukraine with cluster bombs, which are banned by over 100 nations because they are exceptionally harmful to civilians.
The Pentagon announced Friday that the US was sending cluster munitions to Ukraine as part of an $800 million weapons package. Kyiv will receive dual-purpose improved conventional munitions (DPICM), small bomblets packed into 155mm artillery shells designed to spread the munitions.
On February 28, 2022, then-White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, who now has her own TV show on MSNBC, told reporters that Russia’s use of cluster munitions in Ukraine would “potentially be a war crime.” But now, the Biden administration has changed its tune on the widely-banned munitions.
Speaking to CNN‘s Fareed Zakaria on Friday, President Biden said he needed to send cluster bombs because Ukraine and the US are running out of ammunition. “This is a war relating to munitions. And they’re running out of that ammunition, and we’re low on it,” he said. “And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the Defense Department to — not permanently — but to allow for this transition period, while we get more 155 weapons, these shells, for the Ukrainians.”
While Biden frames the provision of cluster bombs as temporary, Colin Kahl, undersecretary of defense for policy, said the US will arm Ukraine with “hundreds of thousands” of the munitions.
Cluster bombs are especially hazardous to civilians because many of the bomblets don’t explode on impact, meaning people could find them years later. During the Vietnam War, the US dropped millions of cluster bomblets on Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, and each country is still dealing with them to this day.
Kahl insisted that the cluster munitions the US will send to Ukraine were tested and will have a dud rate of 2.35%. But The New York Times reported that the rate will likely be closer to 14% due to factors on the battlefield not taken into account during the Pentagon’s tests.
The Times report said each 155mm artillery shell will be packed with 72 bomblets. At a dud rate of 14%, each shell could leave behind about 10 unexploded bombs, a major hazard for civilians if they’re not cleaned up.
Kahl said the US has received assurances that Ukraine won’t use cluster munitions in “civilian-populated urban environments.” But cluster munitions are incredibly hazardous to people living in rural areas, as they are often found by farmers or children playing in forests.
Ukraine has a history of using cluster bombs against civilian populated areas. In 2014, Human Rights Watch (HRW) reported that the Kyiv government was using cluster munitions in populated areas of Donetsk city.
Ukraine has also used cluster bombs in populated areas during the current conflict with Russia. A day before the Pentagon announced it was arming Ukraine with cluster bombs, HRW issued a report that said Ukrainian forces killed at least eight civilians with cluster bombs in the eastern city of Izium in 2022.
HRW said Russian forces have also killed many civilians with cluster bombs, and Biden administration officials have defended their decision by pointing to Russia’s use of the controversial munitions. The US, Russia, and Ukraine are not signatories to the treaty that bans the munitions, known as the Convention on Cluster Munitions.
This makes it official.
We are in the Destroy the Village to Save the Village phase of the war.
$200,000,000,000 bucks later and they admit they are running out of ammo, if they don’t resort to using weapons that most of Europe has banned, because they consider them in the same category as WMD’s.
If that’s not admitting you are failing what is?
I prefer the responses from the three stooges. It’s more lively.
No surprise here. Totally expected.
come on Julio, that wasn’t very lively
…and thoughtful. They fingered, fisted, and kicked, but weren’t ready to nuke each other to “win an open door” argument. (Sarcasm)
I prefer the responses from the three stooges. It’s more lively.
wow uncle sam. wow
one side of his mouth = “Russia’s use of cluster munitions in Ukraine would potentially be a war crime”
other side of his mouth = “the US will arm Ukraine with hundreds of thousands of the munitions”
It’s okay to use cluster munitions when you run out of bombs = It’s okay for Russia to use nuclear bombs when they run out of all bombs. Many “experts” say Russia is already all out of bombs, missiles, drones, tanks, and soldiers! …So, let’s follow the same logic. Are we expecting Russia to surrender, while they still have 6500 unused and ready to go nuclear bombs? …What’s that? I’m stupid? (Sarcasm alert)
If Putin is ready to leave behind a legacy of being a coward and destroy the world over a tiny piece of Ukraine, yeah, maybe. If trillionaire Putin is ready to abandon his highly luxurious lifestyle over a war he started, yeah, maybe. He doesn’t have to surrender to finish this war. Just pull his sh!t army out of Ukraine in the very peaceful manner he claims have.
Mr. Z lied re. destroying the bridge, read this. You won’t find anything in the US MSM: https://www.hindustantimes.com/videos/world-news/zelensky-a-liar-ukraines-top-official-proves-putin-right-by-owning-kerch-bridge-attack-101688906398671.html
Yes, the ‘exceptional nation’ doesn’t play by the same rules that requires other nations to play by. Way beyond hypocrisy.
Any person who.believes anything any American politician ever says is stupid,ignorant and delusional Any statement one of them ever utters about Foreign Policy is automatically full of shit.
War criminal.
Just think of all the new weapons that will be developed now and in the future because of this war. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vladimir-putin-debuts-deadly-thermobaric-drone-ammo-designed-to-obliterate-people-and-objects-no-way-of-protecting-yourself-from-it/ar-AA1dDOGC?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ae0b29dab02c4ec498f653d82dd13775&ei=9
Soon, all that matters would be the nuclear weapons. I hope the nuclear weapons are as good as Ellsberg claimed. I don’t want to suffer through the experiment. I’m not patient and not a good patient either. (Sarcasm)
Sorry, but the nuclear blasts will only kill a few hundred million of us, those in the directly targeted cities. It will be famine and disease that kill billions of us worldwide, in the wake of the nuclear winter that follows the war.
Yea, you might want to move closer to a city like D.C. or down in Va., with all the intelligence agencies. In case of a Global Conflict, those places are sure to be hit.
So… That means I have to slowly suffer until I die? That’s okay. I will make sure to print a picture of Biden and Zelensky hugging to ease my suffering until I die! LOL. Except, I’m lucky. I only live 5 miles away from a navy base. I’m confident I’ll be one of the lucky ones. (Sarcasm)
This is why the war in Ukraine is as much against Ukrainian civilians as it is against the Russians. Not only have they become conscript cannon fodder but they will now be victims of these illegal munitions. The centuries-old neocon abiding hatred of Slavs knows no bounds.
What else do you expect from a senile,old,warmongering fool who is a canidate for the worst President ever along with Reagan,Bush,Obama and Trump.? There is a pattern,they are getting worse term by term. What does the future hold?
Sorry I forgot Slick Willy Clinton. I am getting old and tired.
And another Bush.
Our only enemies are the politicians that keep getting elected for no.good reasons and our greedy Corporations,Banks etc.We need an attack if Socialism or we are doomed.
Yes, but Slick Willy could talk now being a good old Southern Preacher boy type, whereas Joe can’t even read lines from a teleprompter without totally f’n it up.
The way things are headed, Dementia Joe might be the ‘last’ American President, and definitely the worst.
Exactly like a used car salesman in a TV commercial: “Good credit, bad credit–We Don’t Care!” A Neocon: “Good Russian, good Ukrainian, good European–We Don’t Care!” (Sarcasm)
All we can hope for is a militarily active and expanded BRICS.
The Neocons prefer to destroy humanity before BRICS develop their currency. (Sarcasm)
Hmmm, I rather hope for military inactivity enforced through defensive alliances.
That’ll work
NATO, they claim is defensive, yet it was never used defensively, the USA used it aggressively for American interests, as in Iraq. Only France and Germany had good heads of state who said no. Then there were the coerced NATO members of the willing as now. Biden is all over the place to hit them over the head if they don’t deliver. Some alliance that is.
That is a good thought but it will not happen soon enough to.save our sorry asses.
First they will provide Kiev regime with cluster bombs, then they accuse Russia of using cluster bombs and nominate Biden for Nobel Peace Prize.
They’ve been accusing Russia of using cluster bombs since February of 2022. In the war with Ukraine, that is. Before that, they were accusing Russia of using cluster bombs in Syria, etc. And given the footage of explosions consistent with cluster bombs, and unexploded ordnance that looks like cluster bomblets, etc., those accusations seem credible.
It’s not like Russia using cluster bombs would be at variance with either Russian or US military doctrine. Both countries have them, both countries have used them, and neither country has signed on to international conventions forbidding them.
critical distinction: the Ukra-Nazis used/use them to exterminate an ethnic civilian poopulation; the Russians, against an attacking army.
They’ve likely both used them against civilians, as well as against attacking armies.
The Russians avoided civilian casualties as much as they could, using cluster ammunitions would be counterproductive like shelling the NPP and blowing up the NS pipelines and dam.
In other words, everything must confirm your priors: If it’s bad, Russia wouldn’t do it, so if it was done, Russia didn’t do it.
Believe it or not, Russian politicians and generals are not magically morally superior to other politicians and generals just because they’re Russian.
I look for evidence to judge, now I did experience the incubator babies, Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine, lies upon lies. Remember the Pentagon papers? The ditched Minsk agreements do exist, or not? The offer of neutrality for Ukraine was made, or not? What agreement did Putin break?
Please, back up your accusations with credible evidence, I am not a believer, I want to know.
You seem to have mistaken me for someone else.
I don’t recall getting especially exercised about Putin “breaking” any “agreements.”
But now that you mention it, the 1997 Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation includes “recognition of the inviolability of existing borders.”
That would include both sides Ukraine and Russia, not NATO, and that is the point.
The Obama regime change turned Ukraine in an American colony, and militarily NATO took over to arm and train the Ukrainians to NATO standards including military exercises close to the Russian border.
10 exercises with NATO members were scheduled for 2022 per the Army Times
NATO is de facto there using Ukraine as proxy.
Without NATO common sense would have prevailed, but not with Biden/Nuland.
1997 Treaty of friendship
“recognition of the inviolability of existing borders.”
That is all Putin wanted, to prevent NATO to violate the Russian border with Ukraine.
You’ve certainly got all the neocon talking points down pat.
Anyway, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you look at the text of the treaty you mentioned, it’s quite clear that “Ukraine” (i.e. post-coup Ukraine) violated it. For example, according to Article 12 of the treaty:
“The High Contracting Parties shall protect the ethnic, cultural, linguistic and religious diversity of ethnic minorities in their territory and shall create conditions that encourage such
diversity.
Each High Contracting Party shall guarantee the right of persons belonging to ethnic minorities, individually or together with other persons belonging to ethnic minorities, freely to express, preserve and develop their ethnic, cultural, linguistic or religious diversity and promote and develop their culture without being subjected to any attempts to assimilate them against their will.
The High Contracting Parties shall guarantee the right of persons belonging to ethnic minorities to exercise their human rights and fundamental freedoms fully and effectively and
enjoy them without any discrimination whatsoever and in full equality before the law.
The High Contracting Parties shall promote equal opportunities and conditions for the study of the Ukrainian language in the Russian Federation and of the Russian language in Ukraine, and
for the training of teachers to provide instruction in these languages in educational institutions and,
to this end, shall provide the same degree of State support.
The High Contracting Parties shall conclude cooperation agreements on these questions.”
Then there is Article 6, which states:
“Each High Contracting Party shall refrain from participating in, or supporting, any actions
directed against the other High Contracting Party, and shall not conclude any treaties with third
countries against the other Party. Neither Party shall allow its territory to be used to the detriment
of the security of the other Party.”
Then there is Article 4 which states (in part): “[] The Parties shall endeavour to ensure that all controversial issues are settled exclusively by peaceful means and shall cooperate in preventing and settling conflicts and situations that affect their interests.”
BTW speaking about violations of treaties involving Ukraine, the U.S. “government” has clearly violated the letter and spirit of the so-called “Budapest Memorandum” of 1994.
Thanks for that information, but yes, I knew that the Ukrainians also violated the treaty.
Of course you did; you just didn’t think it was worth mentioning, apparently because it undermines your implication that “Russian politicians” are somehow on the same moral plane as those of the corrupt West (and their corrupt vassal/client states).
The Russian empire’s politicians (and their quislings/satraps such as Kadyrov and Lukashenko) are on the same moral plane as the US empire’s politicians (and their quislings/satraps such as Zelensky and Sunak).
It’s pretty much a question of venue. Over on Twitter, I get called a Putin-bot for not pretending that Biden and Zelenskyy are morally superior to Putin. Over here, I get called a Ukraine cheerleader for not pretending that Putin is morally superior to Biden and Zelenskyy.
I’m an equal opportunity hater of murderous sociopaths and the gangs they lead.
That was before Ukraine started killing ethnic Russians, which changed everything. Remember Mexico/Texas/USA?
Both Ukrainian and Russian forces joyfully murdered ethnic Russians in the Donbas for eight years.
Then, when the killing had nearly stopped (low double digit civilian deaths in 2021), Putin decided to invade.
QED, Putin was not invading because ethnic Russians were being murdered.
Depends on which sources you believe, I guess. Read this: https://off-guardian.org/2023/07/09/how-so-many-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-nukes/
I looked, but couldn’t find any links about Russians killing other Russians, but could find plenty about Ukrainians killing Russians and other atrocities.
Believe it or not, the NATO governments are criminally corrupt. They even control the media. Besides lies there are the deliberate omissions which in to me are lies.
If you can provide a rational honest explanation of why we are in Ukraine you may be able to change my mind.
Under no circumstance can I believe the Ukrainians are ready to die for one reason only namely to join NATO, for that they are ready to die?
Convince me!!
Yes, I agree that the NATO and Russian governments are criminally corrupt. That’s never been in question.
When you talk about how “we” are in Ukraine, I suspect you mean the US regime, the NATO regimes, etc. — I’m certainly not in Ukraine, nor do I intend to be. I doubt you are either.
Why are the US/NATO/EU in Ukraine? In part because there’s a lot of money in it for their military-industrial complexes, and in part because the declining US empire sees perpetual war as the only way to keep itself chugging along.
I do agree with every point you made, I just arrived at a different conclusion.
To me the conflict was provoked by the US political and corporate (MIC) establishment, for all the reasons you mentioned, Russia has oil, just to mention one point.
The Russians did offer to negotiate based on the ditched signed Minsk agreement offering neutrality in return for no NATO membership and no nuclear missiles and for Russia’s border security. Fair and rational in my eyes.
Biden said no, he opted for war because he wants Putin out and Russia weakened. The American establishment wants the Russian natural resources, the big lie, it is NOT about Ukrainian NATO member ship at all, the second big lie of the century after Iraq.
I will not support war crimes, that is what it is, the annihilation of the country and the Ukrainian people.
Biden has no intention to end the slaughter, not once did he make an HONEST effort to end the slaughter, the word peace never crosses his lips. That is so evil.
I will be true to myself, and able to look in my mirror.
Is it at least plausible? You believe anything if it fits the narrative. The government and MSM never lie or plant lies in media? WMDs and the war in Iraq based on official lies never happened?
What does it take to make you stop believing people you know for a fact they are liars?
Our government officials are liars, how do you know what you ca believe if they provide no “credible” evidence?
Well, I know that Biden, Zelenskyy, and Putin are liars, so I never believe anything they say without evidence.
When it comes to media, both “MSM” and “alternative,” I do my best to figure out what is factual and what is not instead of just rooting for whichever team is wearing the color of jersey I prefer.
Biden/Zelensky don’t even make sense. Biden is barely coherent and Zelensky is not even in the loop, he begs and demands more money and more and more weapons.
Now, I am not aware of Putin lying, he properly does, but I don’t know of any incident, the same is true of Lavrov, both of them always are coherent and plausible and the condition on the ground supports them. Prove me wrong, I know what I know. Any agreement you know Putin broke, like the Minsk agreements or the ABM treaty?
All politicians lie.its their nature.iT has always been so and always will.be.
Some politicians have more character and decency than others, in our present crop there are none with decency and character. Maybe you know of some, I don’t.
The honest men like MLK,Malcolm,jFk seem to bite the dust.That is not just a coincidence.it is part of the plan.
I agree, see what happened with JFK, he handled the Cuba crisis well by talking and negotiating with the Russian side and was dead not much later. He did have a CIA problem, looks like he did not trust them. The Dulles brothers handled CIA and the state department, they were very powerful. Maybe that combination killed the Kennedy brothers.
Could you cite some lies that Putin has told?
Personally, I just think billionaire and liar are synonymous.
Well, we could start with the big one: He said he wasn’t going to invade Ukraine.
If the Russians used cluster ammunition, all we have is allegations without credible evidence.
Sorry. Not correct. We also have more totally unjustified moral superiority. (Sarcasm)
Still wrong.
Depends if they clean up after it’s over
At least as much as possible, the things get buried under dirt in no time. And decades later construction workers by accident find them.
When they are able to. Or willing to. And they’re prompt. And they get them all. So, no.
From watching today’s discussions, the thinking is the Russians haven’t used cluster munitions. If they had the Western war media would have been trumpeting it 24/7 eveer since. And mostly because they’re not applicable to this battlefield; and Russia is producing plenty that are.
We really don’t know, but the use by Russia is not really plausible, legal or not, it would be stupid, they are winning, they don’t need it.
My reply was to their use on an advancing army. I’ll stick with “still wrong”.
I have no military expertise, I judge by the circumstances, and in the scheme of things it is a minor issue, wars are brutal and does brutalize people, it is a heavy burden on young soldiers.
War is the worst that can happen to a nation, and this one was easy to avoid with a little good will on the Biden NATO side. Shame on all these war criminals who had it in their hands to stop the butcheries.
Both sides are losing, and neither side will “win” if by “win” you mean getting everything it wants or is demanding.
But time is not on Russia’s side. The dramatic mismatch of capacity to produce and deliver arms and munitions between it and NATO meant that unless it accomplished a quick maneuver warfare victory, the thing was bound to turn into a protracted fiasco in which Russia gets weaker versus its opponents each and every day. Having allowed it window for convincing victory to close and turn the war into a 17-month fiasco in which it took eight months to secure Bakhmut and still hasn’t secured Donetsk, it’s unlikely to turn the thing around.
So if “desperation” was the criterion for using cluster munitions (it isn’t, but if it was), Russia would be the more likely candidate for doing so, for the same reason that it’s throwing refurbished T-55s onto the battlefield.
Well , Zelensky and Biden also had 17 months to turn it around and win, why did they not do it? They get support from more than thirty nations with money and weapons, how come they can’t turn it around?
Why would Biden want to turn it around? Every day it drags on makes Russia weaker in comparison to US/EU/NATO, at little cost to the latter and great cost to the former.
As many, you included, have pointed out, it doesn’t matter what Zelenskyy thinks. He’s a US imperial satrap, not a decision-maker.
Thomas, smart Biden/Nuland are killing the German economy and with it the EU.
Sanctions as punishment imposed on member EU economies for not sanctioning Russia and blowing up the energy supply deindustrializing Germany are acts of war against allies, that is killing NATO and EU since most EU members are also NATO members. That is more than just collateral damage. Does that make sense to you? They are idiots in the MADHOUSE aka WH. Are you sitting on your brains too? They are bonkers in congress on both sides of the aisle. Sanctions are destroying the global economies, the USA will be isolated if anything will even be left of the blue planet. Are you so blind you don’t see what a bunch of idiots are on the lose in Washington?
This most likely is why Haas and other neocons tried to contact the Russians. They must be dammed scared, and they have better and more info than we have. And stupid Biden reacted how? No they are not authorized to talk with the other side.And Biden is on his merry way to start another big war with China. There must be a vacuum where there should be a brain
I’m not sure how you convinced yourself that I support the sanctions, or any other elements of the US/EU/NATO involvement in Ukraine.
I don’t. Period. I’m against the US in particular playing any part whatsoever in the war.
That doesn’t mean I have to pretend the Russian regime is any more honest, humane, etc. than the US regime, the UK regime, et al.
In what sense is Russia getting “weaker” in comparison to the corrupt collective West “every day that the Ukraine conflict) drags on”?
“The corrupt collective West” (just the parts of it actively supporting Ukraine) have a full order of magnitude more industrial production capacity than Russia. At very little cost to themselves, they can deliver several times as much ordnance to the Ukrainians as the Russians can produce themselves at great cost.
That’s just a bare assertion. On the contrary, Russia is routinely taking out multi-million dollar U.S./NATO supplied tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, artillery and air defense systems – with weapons that are about two orders of magnitude cheaper.
According to Reuters:
“DONETSK REGION, Ukraine, June 28 (Reuters) – As Russia’s invasion enters its 17th month, Ukrainian forces say Moscow is ramping up its use of low-cost suicide drones that are capable of destroying equipment many times their value and not easy to defend against.
The Lancet drone, an angular grey tube with two sets of four wings, has been an increasing threat on Ukraine’s frontlines in recent months, according to Ukrainian solders.
Videos posted by pro-Russian social media channels over the last month appear to show Lancet drones damaging or destroying Ukraine’s valuable Western-donated equipment, such as a Leopard 2 tank and a Caesar self-propelled howitzer. []”
And as far as replacement cost of the equipment, according to Reuters:
“May 12 (Reuters) – Germany plans to buy 18 Leopard 2 tanks and 12 self-propelled howitzers to replenish stocks depleted by deliveries to Ukraine, according to procurement documents seen by Reuters on Friday.
The tanks order will come to 525 million euros ($578 million) while the howitzers have a price tag of 190.7 million euros, all of which are to be delivered by 2026 at the latest, said the finance ministry documents meant for the parliament.”
So the replacement cost for Germany is about $32 million per tank, and about $16 million per artillery piece.
I believe that the corrupt West will run out of multi-million dollar hardware before Russia runs out of $35k drones.
What, you think the west doesn’t have $35k drones too?
That’s right, I think the West doesn’t have anything comparable to Russia’s Lancet 3 drone for $35k. Supposedly they recently delivered to Ukraine some new, supposedly comparable (in features) Switchblade 600 drones which cost a lot more than $35k, but how effective they will be in combat remains to be seen.
The per-unit cost of the Switchblade seems to be around $70k, but that seems to inclide “associated hardware and support services,” as well as some kind of maritime integration scheme.
We’re at an interesting point in the evolution of warfare. Good air defense systems are making manned aircraft obsolete, while drone swarms are creating problems for those air defense systems … but the missing piece still seems to be, um missing. That missing piece is the drones really being very good at much except e.g. swarming air defense systems or taking out small, even individual, targets.
“Every day it drags on makes Russia weaker in comparison to US/EU/NATO, at little cost to the latter and great cost to the former.”
Oh sure, Every Day Russia’s missiles go SLOWER and Her Bombs with 4000 times the blast of NATO’s bombs get Smaller, Russia’s national debt gets a fraction larger of America’s 30 trillion dollar debt. And every day this terrible war grinds on China and Russia grow farther apart. perhaps in your Neocon tolerant worldview. In the REAL WORLD of peer to peer nuclear and ROCKETRY progress is way past the tipping point and America and its NATO Gnomes are a generation behind the cutting edge on Great Game war fighting skills. The twenty years of ‘The Great War On Terror” chasing Muslims in third and fourth tier military states squandered trillions and wasted vast time which weakened the U.S. and its NATO vassals more than anything that Ukraine and NATO could ever dream of doing to Russia.
Could be, but if Ukraine using cluster bombs in Crimea or on Russia troops doesn’t provoke Putin to using stronger weapons himself, I don’t know what will.
By my book, The Russians have already WON! Now the Ukies are trying to win back what they have already lost, and seem to be losing more of Ukraine as they try. Maybe its better for them to concede while they have 70? percent. But it is apparently not going to be. As we see the MIC is humming as profits keep piling in. That is why America seems to seldom win any wars. One can be nearly certain that winning this war is not in the cards for the “High Heeled Dancer” in the land of farmers. But one can be very certain that this fiasco has shattered Neocon Delusions of “Full Spectrum Dominance.”
More like full spectrum hubris and incompetence, sub-sonic illusions in an hypersonic battle space.
“By my book, The Russians have already WON!”
In other words, you enjoy reading fantasy novels.
Russia using cluster bombs is merely an accusation nothing more. There is not a shred of evidence Russia using them. If they had surely it would have been splashed all over the western propaganda media. Besides cluster bombs would not have any strategic or tactical advantage for Russia on the battlefield.
“If they had surely it would have been splashed all over the western propaganda media.”
And it was splashed all over the western propaganda media.
Here’s the part where, having announced that you trust only the western propaganda media to settle the question of whether Russia uses cluster bombs, you change to your announcement that you don’t trust the western propaganda media at all. Follow the bouncing ball.
And it was propaganda without evidence. We now face propaganda backlash, no one with a brain believes anything in MEDIA without credible evidence.
Dude! I agree with you that we should not believe the MEDIA, but there is strong evidence that we are all without brains. Chamberlin was most hated and ridiculed not because he was a standard warmonger or dropped nuclear bombs on innocent civilians, but because he wanted to prevent WWII. He’s the one most mentioned, when people discourage antiwar movements. That’s why I have no hope for humanity. (Sarcasm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
Your sarcasm is reality, it shows how little people learned, even decades later with hindsight they learned nothing. The powers that be make sure the children don’t find out. They do burn books if they feel they have to.
Right you are about Neville Chamberlain’s poor dead corpse being dug up every time they want to discredit someone working for peace!
“propaganda without evidence”
True, without evidence other than the video of the explosions, the photos of the cluster bomblets, and the eyewitness accounts of the injured. But yeah, other than that, no evidence.
It’s not like it’s that big a deal to believe that the Russians would use weapons they possess, weapons they have used in the past, and weapons they’ve declined to sign on to a treaty against having/using.
“The US, Russia, and Ukraine are not signatories to the treaty that bans the munitions, known as the Convention on Cluster Munitions.”
What is stopping Russia?
They are winning, why should they use the weapons against the Ukrainian people?
Just because they can does not make it smart to do.
It is not plausible for Russians to use cluster ammunition just because it is legal when they don’t need it.
Because Putin is a thug just like Biden and Zelensky.
It is not that easy. You think you get away with such statements without any rational reasoning to back it up?
Make it easier on yourself, don’t respond at all.
Sure, I can. It’s called having an opinion. Just being ex-KGB does it for me.
Much appreciated. Thoughts are free.
I am sorry to disappoint you, Putin is a statesman. Why is Putin a thug? We can only be grateful for level headed President Putin. Without him we would already be in a nuclear WW III. We count on his calm level headedness to save the world. Forget Washington, they are bonkers and money and power is all they care about and to hell with the people.
Biden is demented and Zelensky is a clown. They are irrational people.
“I am sorry to disappoint you, Putin is a statesman. Why is Putin a thug?”
You answered your own question with the previous claim. “Statesman” is just a shorter way of saying “sociopathic thug.”
“A statesman is a usually wise, skilled, and respected government leader1. It is someone who is a respected leader in national or international affairs2. A statesman is someone who is actively engaged in conducting the business of a government or in shaping its policies3”
I never called Biden or Zelensky or any current NATO head of state statesman.
There are some exceptions like Orban of Hungary and leaders of other smaller Easter countries who care enough about their countries and their people statesmen, none of the big powers like UK, France, Germany or Italy are headed by statesmen, they are trash at best. Biden does have lots of company.
Yes, a statesman is a “respected leader” of a government/state.
And a government/state is an overgrown violent street gang.
The difference between Putin on one hand and Biden/Zelenskyy on the other is that you drank the Putin Kool Aid, put on the Putin jersey, and bought yourself a Putin pennant and giant foam finger.
“And a government/state is an overgrown violent street gang.”
Not all government is the same. Just like almost everything else in the universe, evil is a matter of degree; some people and some governments are more evil than others.
“The difference between Putin on one hand and Biden/Zelenskyy on the other is that you drank the Putin Kool Aid, put on the Putin jersey, and bought yourself a Putin pennant and giant foam finger.”
If that were the case we would not now be on the verge of a nuclear war.
What makes you think we’re on the verge of nuclear war?
Since Xi has not publicly announced any change of the Chinese policy of holding its nuclear umbrella over Ukraine and nuking anyone who nukes it, I doubt that Putin will even consider using nukes. And since the US regime knows that it would receive a nuclear response to any nuclear attack of its own, it’s not going to do that either. MAD is still in effect. Which sucks, but until we get nuclear disarmament it’s all we’ve got.
“What makes you think we’re on the verge of nuclear war?”
Several lines of reasoning lead me to that conclusion. Frankly I don’t see how anyone paying attention to U.S. “foreign policy” could see it differently.
In any case the Russian government seems to be of the opinion that the U.S. “government” is determined to destroy Russia and seems to be of the opinion that the U.S. “government” cannot be trusted, accordingly.
“And since the US regime knows that it would receive a nuclear response to any nuclear attack of its own, it’s not going to do that either.”
But you seem to be assuming that the “US regime” is comprised of people who are at least moderately rational (or at least some kind of amoral pragmatists who have some sense of self-preservation); and the historical record suggests that that is a very questionable assumption, IMO.
What if they’re insane (to try to put it into worldly terms)? What if they see nuclear war and TEOTWAWKI as being preferable to the failure to accomplish their goal of complete world domination and control? What if they’re no less fanatical than the many suicide bombers who work for them?
The only thing I assume is that nothing has really changed vis a vis the likelihood of nuclear war.
We’ve been on that knife’s edge since August 29, 1949 (the date of RDS-1, the first successful Soviet atomic test), when there started being more than one regime with the weapons and increasing abilities to use them.
I try not to over-estimate the sanity of any regime. So yes, it’s conceivable that Biden, or Putin, or Xi, or Modi, or Sharif, or Kim, etc. could lose their minds and unleash a war that destroys the planet.
But to the extent that these people are even semi-rational, they understand that there’s absolutely nothing at stake in Ukraine that represents an existential threat to either the US empire or the Russian empire, and that unleashing nukes would bring about their immediate destructions rather than slowing their imperial declines.
So: I am not any more worried about nuclear war today than I was in, say, 1983 or 1993. Which is to say, I’m somewhat worried. But in the case of Russia and Ukraine specifically, I am not the least bit worried that Putin will use nukes. If Biden doesn’t scare him, Xi surely does.
The corrupt West is apparently being run by a Satanic cult of demon-possessed madmen. What the madmen find intolerable about Putin is that he leads Russia by good moral example. Evil cannot tolerate a good example.
One person’s statesman is another person’s thug, depending on which side you’re on .
Just because Putin might be a lesser thug doesn’t mean he isn’t a thug.
Maybe you know more about him than I do, I just judge by what I know.
What a ridiculous thing to say.
Truth hurt?
Apparently it does hurt you or you wouldn’t be so averse to it.
“Why is Putin a thug?”
Seriously? All these people are thugs … it’s in the job description. They would not be able to get or keep the job if they were not thugs.
Just because we realize our side’s leaders are thugs and cretins does not make the other side’s leaders saints or even decent people.
But the thing is that whether Putin should be president of Russia is Russian people’s decision. Ours (assuming you’re USian) is what we do with our thugs.
Just political slander is not good enough. Even we have had better leaders then what we have now. I am old enough to know. They don’t have to be perfect but they should have character and decency and integrity.
President Kennedy was not perfect but he had the decency to work with the Russians to solve the Cuba missile crisis. But he was assassinated several months later. He did give a pertinent great speech before his death, President Biden should read it.
There is no coherent policy speech from Biden that I know of, no coherent rational speech about the state of the nation and what he wants to do. Not just empty campaign promises. For once an intelligent policy speech, talking to the nation, is not too much to ask. I am waiting.
Yes, in the pre-imperial stage, we did have less violent thugs in charge … that’s what the job called for then. Pre-1945 and certainly pre-1898, the presidency called for someone capable of the semblance of diplomacy and tact. Once we embarked on international empire in 1898 and then the national security state in ’45, the job description changed to full-on thug.
notice that the only old-fashioned (pre ’45) person who got the job (Kennedy) was rapidly dismissed from the position.
Always remember what the late Douglas Adams said about presidents: “The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
We too used to have better leaders with more character and decency, they don’t have to be perfect.
How would someone like Biden have handled the Cuban missile crisis?
Kennedy did not say I don’t talk to the Russians.
Compare Biden/Blinken and Putin/Lavrov, like day and night.
The Biden people make me feel ashamed and the incompetence and lack of integrity and decency is really scary, and it is not better on the other side of the aisle.
Check this out, no mention of this in US media: https://www.hindustantimes.com/videos/world-news/zelensky-a-liar-ukraines-top-official-proves-putin-right-by-owning-kerch-bridge-attack-101688906398671.html
I too like watching it, you have to go outside NATO territory for news.
They also splashed all over the media that Russia sabotaged the pipelines and shelled the NPP in Ukraine and more.
When you spread nonsense like that and claim it in the UN and then it turns out to be lies you lose credibility, only suckers will believe you.
It’s a bit different in saying Russia attacked itself as compared to saying Russia used munitions that most of the international community has signed on to banning. They could easily put this issue to bed by renouncing cluster bombs and joining the rest of those who have already done so.
I agree with you. But it looks like if the US does not denounce it, Russia will not denounce it either.
And there you go. Now tell me why Putin is different.
He can’t just roll over, he has an obligation to protect the Russian people from harm. They must have nuclear weapons and conventional weapons , or they end up like Iraq. They know, they can’t trust the Americans, not Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden. Putin knows them all and each one deceived him.
I guess you can say he has no choice but to be a thug if you like.
No nation gets out of a war with clean hands, they all have blood on their hands.
Exactly. Putin too.
That is why Putin did all he could to avoid war but it takes two to dance, Biden refused to dance he was set for war going back to W. Bush at least. Zelensky was one of the earliest visitors in the WH after the inauguration.
Biden set a record, he prepared for war the moment he became president. NOT PUTIN, he was never a war monger like Biden, he is in office long enough to know 4 American living presidents, and each one of them lied and deceived him, and he is still a popular President of the RF.
I’m not arguing about any of that. You said “No nation gets out of a war with clean hands, they all have blood on their hands”. I agreed. Putin too.
And Putin knows it, that is why he wanted a diplomatic settlement based on the signed and agreed on Minsk agreement. Biden said no, ask Jeffrey Sachs, he pleaded with the Biden people to negotiate and they said no.
What has Biden done to end the slaughter of the Ukrainian and Russian people? As far as I know, Biden did nothing, he intervened to prevent an end of the killing.
Biden has much much more blood on his hands and he likes it, he wants more, Biden is a real killer.
That is the difference, Putin was reluctant and all his speeches prove it.
There you go comparing Putin and Biden again. The blood on Putin’s hands isn’t washed away because Biden has more blood on his.
Putin had to deal with Biden, I am not comparing the two men here. Minsk was a signed and approved agreement, offering neutrality to Ukraine which Biden turned down. That is fact not to compare anything.
Both men made a decision, Biden won, he said no and now look what Ukraine looks like and judge.
Biden didn’t have any power to “turn down” Minsk, because the US regime was not one of the signatories to Minsk. The three signatories to Minsk were the Ukrainian regime, the Russian regime, and the separatist regime. None of which held up their end of the deal, as the point for all three parties was to buy time to continue militarizing the Donbas.
Biden did not support Minsk, the US encouraged not to implement it. It is their RIGHT to be a NATO member
the young men were told, it is worth dying for.
The Cato Institute July,7 on You tube informed Biden to not admit Ukraine to NATO, because it is not cost efficient. No hemming and hawing, loud and clear. He was told they should leave and close the door behind them. Sweden and Finland are welcome they have money the Americans can steal. Ukraine has given all they had, their sons and daughters, the whole nation they are bare to the bones, with no money to buy a NATO member ticket. The Americans will leave closing the door behind them as told by Cato and never look back. Ukraine can join Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria and more. The US sucked every drop of blood out of the nation and paid the Zelensky scum.
And the criminals are still telling Zelensky the Ukraine will become a NATO member soon. And the Europeans must know, they are the paymasters. The Europeans already are the next prey.
The NATO Members are even more stupid than the Ukrainians. They go on funding their butcher.
And France and Germany, tell the whole story. The American establishment elite can’t be trusted, they are monsters, men and women alike, not a shred of decency.
Don’t try to fool me, Zelensky is a handpuppet, he has no power to do anything, he does as told for which he gets paid. You are old enough to know that.
Just curiosity, why did the Americans not co-sign the agreement??? They voted not present. And the others knew why. That is why Putin knew, they had to get ready for war with NATO, NATO took over in Kiev. Informed people know about that, the military funding, arming and training, of Ukraine a de facto NATO member was going full steam ahead.
Now Cato people say, Ukraine should not be a NATO member Ukraine would not be cost-efficient. Let it melt in you mouth.
It was not about NATO membership the hundreds of thousand young men lost their lives for, it was truly about BIDENS failed attempted regime change of Putin and robbing RUSSIAN NATURAL RESOURCES, LIKE ALWAYS, all else is a lie.
NATO members pay most of the bill, not the US, for Biden the WAR is COST-EFFECTIVE as long as others do the dying. What bas****ds politicians are. They have no decency, they still keep telling the clown, not now, later, when it should be never, it never was about NATO membership.
“Just curiosity, why did the Americans not co-sign the agreement???”
For the same reason Albania, Indonesia, and Kenya didn’t: They weren’t one of the parties agreeing to something. If you buy a house, I don’t drop by to sign the contract you arrive at with the seller.
The parties to Minsk were: The Ukrainian regime, the Russian regime, and the Donetsk/Luhansk People’s Republics. They were the ones with issues to settle, and they were the ones who entered into an agreement that was supposed to settle those issues (although apparently none of them intended to abide by the deal, as none of them did).
But the US was involved as the leader in a country the US had no business in. They did fund a bloody regime change, and starting a civil war which took the lives of some 14 000 people. The US cowardly always hides behind others, blaming them for the problem. The US wanted this war, they wanted regime change and destroy Russia. All for Russian natural resources and hegemon global control. They do not care about Ukrainian NATO membership, only about using hundreds of thousands of young Ukrainian men as cannon fodder and the country to scorched earth. They kept pushing the Ukrainians to sacrifice the lives of all the young men in battles of lost causes. Life has no value not even as much as a $ bill.
Our politicians are brutal monsters with not an iota of conscience and decency. They are the real war criminals and the women are as ruthless and criminal as the man, look at Hillary, and Victoria, and Condi and many more.
“The US wanted this war”
And Putin took the bait.
Wrong, the Ukrainians took the bait, they think they fight for the right to become a NATO member. Which will never happen, Cato people reminded Biden NOT TO ADMIT Ukraine to NATO Ukraine is NOT cost-effective.
Sweden and Finland are cost-effective.
Not a bait, Putin took the threat seriously and prepared for war while NATO trained and funded and joined in NATO military exercises in Ukraine near the Russian border.
Putin did what any head of state with a sense of responsibility would do, he prepared to defend against a de facto NATO aggression. He learned from Iraq and Afghanistan and all the broken treaties including the ABM TREATY W. Bush broke and the Clinton deception to expand NATO East and much more.
The USA/NATO can’t be trusted, they stab their own in the back, see the pipeline sabotage, a declaration of war between the US and other NATO members including Norway and Denmark, and Sweden in waiting against Germany and the EU, almost all NATO members. So much treason I never thought possible.
Why would Sweden trust such an outfit and give up their own neutrality for such treasonous allies on a sinking ship? Where did the money go to? War profiteers and who else? Something smells very fishy. A controlled press and a lack of any real national debate speaks for itself. It stinks.
And what were the Americans doing in Ukraine? They were not one of the parties agreeing to something just like Albania, Indonesia, and Kenya were not. But they were not present, why was the USA present?
Seriously, stop hiding behind stupid arguments, you embarrass yourself.
How is it stupid to point out that the reason that the Americans didn’t sign the Minsk accords is that the Americans weren’t a party to the Minsk accords?
What makes you think there weren’t Albanians, Indonesians, and Kenyans in Ukraine at the time the accords were signed?
NO COMMENT.
Get real, this war is US against Russia.
Ukraine is nothing but cannon fodder.
The US wanted the war, the Minsk accords were for peace and a NEUTRAL Ukraine and that was not in US American interests. It is not about Ukraine becoming a NATO member, W. Bush started that lie too. The Ukrainians are dying for American interests. That is why Biden stops any diplomatic peace initiative, anyone with a little knowledge and a little brain knows it.
The US will leave a trail of death and destruction like they always do and did in Iraq and Afghanistan and Biden the killer was always in full support each time. Killers govern the NATO alliance, people without integrity and conscience.
To avoid comparing one man with another one must wipe one off the slate by your standards.
No. But saying that no nations get out of war without blood on their hands should mean that Putin has blood on his hands too. And he does. So, comparing Biden to Putin is irrelevant in this case.
Wars are bloody and even in war there are moral judgments to be made.
“Putin did all he could to avoid war”
One way of avoiding war is not going to war.
Putin decided to go to war.
You may think his decision was justified, but unless he’s some kind of helpless meat puppet, it was a choice he made. And if you DO think he’s some kind of helpless meat puppet, then that pretty much cancels out all the “oh, he’s such a STATESMAN” stuff.
Putin’s war is preventive and certainly more justifiable than the war against Iraq and the killing of Saddam Hussein or the invasion of Afghanistan and the brutal killing of the elected head of state, same as Libya and so many more. One thing you should avoid is to pull the morality card. Our elected officials and presidents are not moral people, they are ready to kill anyone any time, it adds up to millions killed. MORALITY of American governments is a joke, they are no better than anyone else, starting with the genocide of the American Indians and all the wars that followed.
The whole S.W. and California was it just given to the USA or was there a war? The Alamo can be visited in San Antonio Tx. This nation is in need of more honest and realistic history. American history is as bloody as any other. Their is a difference between nationalism, which is narcissism and real patriotism.
Thomas, I stick to my own judgement.
Your comment is not even rational.
How can you stick to something that you continually prove is non-existent?
The Biden provocations are not non-existent, they are tangible, He said Putin must go, Austin said Russia has to be weakened, Biden/Nuland kept funding and arming Zelensky in a lost cause, they kept stoken the useless battles costing thousands of young men their lives and he blocked any diplomatic peace initiatives without ever suggesting anything to end the war. Escalation is all he knows as long as the Europeans pay and the Ukrainians keep dying.
Cato makes sense, leave Ukraine and don’t loo back, Ukrainian NATO membership is not cost-effective, don’t do it.
Well, when someone punches you in the face, avoid a fight and don’t hit back.
When Putin spoke to the nation, he told the people he does not want to go to war but it is his duty to protect the nation from harm.
Biden never bothered to tell the people anything. By accident he blabbered Putin must go, regime change in other words, and Austin piped in they must weaken Russia. That is it, nothing else, no introspective words like Putin used. More than a year later Biden is busy campaigning and raising money for the election.
Why do you keep comparing the two? I’m not a Biden fan by any stretch. This was about cluster bombs and Putin having to have them because the US has them. Which makes him on the same level of evil as the US when it comes to cluster bombs.
You know we should compare the quality of our nations leadership. Biden’s health and ability must be judged, what standard do you have, is a failed leader good enough to be reelected or do you expect more of your leader? Frankly, I do, Biden is a failed president, and he keeps digging the hole deeper.
Like I said, the conversation was about cluster bombs. Biden is horrible. I can’t say that enough. And I really don’t know why you insist on telling me that. It doesn’t change my opinion about Putin. Or Trump for that matter.
He can’t fight back with his hands tight behind his back, as it is, the hardliners in Russia think he is too soft.
His door is open for honest diplomacy, but no one comes through the open door. Biden wants regime change first, so does Zelensky. They will not negotiate with Putin.
If they really wanted peace they would talk with the devil to end the war.
Are his hands tied behind his back if he doesn’t use cluster bombs? Do you think cluster bombs are a game changer? They’re not. Using weapons that can kill innocents years later puts you in the thug category.
And I agree with you about Biden and Zelensky. My distaste for Putin has nothing to do with how I view the West’s culpability in this war.
Cluster bombs are brutal for a long time after the war, children are most often the victims of the duds but a game changer they are not, it is just another brutal and bloody weapon used to kill, part of war. Instead of common sense they go on killing as long as it is not their children that get killed and return in body bags and it is profitable for the MIC AND THE POLITICIANS.
I don’t know enough about Putin to hate the man, what I do know is that he is a decent common sense man serving his nation, which is his job.
A little sideline, Putin never fell so low to call another head of state a killer and war criminal. He has always acted with dignity, a mature and decent statesman.
I voted for Biden but when he had this interview, I believe it was March 2021, on CNN and called Putin a killer I knew he was not fit for the office. It ended for me right then and there. That word, killer, is all I can remember of the interview.
The man is a politician with decades of experience and did not know the basics of diplomacy. He behaved like a child in grade school.
I’d rather Putin than Biden. That doesn’t make Putin not a thug.
You can call Putin whatever you want, it is your conviction and I have mine, I think Putin, from all I know is a statesman and I will not think he is a thug because you say so. I will not hate people I don’t even know because someone tells me to hate, I live by my judgement. What I have seen and heard of Biden, including his senate history is not nice, what I see of him is a shallow person and vindictive. When he refused to stop the sanctions against Syria temporarily for just 2 three days to help the earth quake victims, when he imposed sanctions on the Afghan people after the US waged a 20 year war destroying the country, starving them including women and children and stealing the PEOPLES money from foreign accounts, to pay the WTC victims I had it. Biden is evil. He goes around threatening and coercing other nations to do as he says or face consequences I know what kind of a man he is. I have heard that he is not liked by other leaders.
What a hypocrite that man is, he can lick all the corny ice cream cones he likes, he is evil.
I don’t expect you to think anything because I said so. But the only defense you seem to have of Putin is showing me how bad Biden is.
Problem is that I have nothing nice to say about him. I voted for the man.
You have to remember that some of the bloggers here are true anarchists.
Suckers are born every minute, don’t forget.
Check this out. You won’t find it in the US MSM: https://www.hindustantimes.com/videos/world-news/zelensky-a-liar-ukraines-top-official-proves-putin-right-by-owning-kerch-bridge-attack-101688906398671.html
“Kilgore kneels among the hellish, orange mist engulfing the landscape, he delivers one of the most iconic lines in cinema history: ‘I love the smell of napalm in the morning.'” Biden would probably be happy to just smell dead bodies in the morning and sometimes little girls. (Sarcasm)
As I have pointed out above, the real crime is the egging on of Ukraine’s counteroffensive by our government with the knowledge that it would not be able to sustain the flow of regular ammunition to Ukraine after only a few weeks into that offensive, hence would have to switch to cluster ammo. And it would be an even greater crime if that was not even anticipated.
“The wise man anticipates” (Schiller in William Tell; Churchill had a variant of that wisdom)
We don’t have wise men, we have greedy war profiteers who anticipate the profits and power. Russia has natural resources.
There was the chemical weapons issue which was most likely staged. In the UN they edited the Rapporteur’s report and Rapporteurs resigned or did not sign the edited version. World institutions lost all their credibility, the US/UK CIA and MI6 other intelligence organizations and NGOs demolished their credibility.
All true; with the exception that the US decries their use by others while “reserving the right” to use them themselves. War is War; the idea of “good” vs “bad” weapons is pretty ridiculous; you use what you need to use to save your people’s lives and kill the other guys; so I have no problem with DPICM; just spare me the blatant hypocrisy spewed out by Washington DC.
The problem with DPICM is that they are essentially ineffective against a dug in enemy – the individual bomblets won’t penetrate fortifications – but that’s exactly what Ukraine will be using them on. And, if Russia hasn’t been using cluster munitions to date (and it’s not clear that they have) any hesitation to do so should be gone – and DPICM is designed for use against a mobile enemy – which is what Ukraine is trying to be right now. I think introducing cluster munitions will hurt the Ukrainians considerably more than the Russians.
Boy you have a dark sense of humor but I believe they gave one to Obama
This is an act out of desperation showing that Ukraine (read NATO ) is loosing the war. Ukraine is poisoning its own land with cluster bombs, killing its own people and many children for years to come. Cluster bombs look like toys which attracts children. The were extensively used in Laos where to this very day they are still killing and maiming children.
Yes, it’s scorched earth. Between the depleted uranium and now this, NATO wants to make the liberated territories uninhabitable.
Well, if they make the land a radioactive wasteland, then it will be harder for BlackRock and J.P. Morgan to go in there and loot the country.
They figure if they’re not going to have it then nobody can.
Be patient. After all that, Zelensky still wants to end humanity in a nuclear war. (Sarcasm)
He is almost there, the demented president and the clown dancing to Nuland music.
Nailed it! “Nuland’s music!” It seems the entire world is dancing to her “music.” Except, it’s not “music.” It’s the sound of bombs. The screams, while suffering from raging hell fire. And, the smell of burning and decaying flesh. But people love this $hit just as they loved Churchill before her. (Sarcasm)
I recall as a child growing up in Germany we were constantly told not to touch anything we don’t know because it could be duds, unexploded ammunition’s.
So far the biggest lies of the century
# 1 Saddam Hussein has WMDs, we have no choice, we must invade Iraq.
# 2 Ukrainians FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO JOIN NATO against Russia, that is their right, and we must support that right until the last Ukrainian man standing.
Ukraine has no oil but Russia and Iraq have oil.
Ukrainians are only cheap cannon fodder and much of the bill is paid for by Europeans.
How can a military and intelligence community, ours, spurn Ukraine ton start a counter-offensive while knowing that our military will run out of ammunition early into that offensive. That is where the crime begins.
Insanity and greed together make it possible. Ukrainians and their country are cheap cannon fodder, and there is more where this comes from next door in Europe.
They are bonkers, that is why.
Which is why I’m compelled to give you unsolicited (probably unwanted as well) advice: Please cut down on the use of “intelligence” in your posts. Anyone who describes them with the word “intelligence,” reminds me of Alan Greenspan’s term, “irrational exuberance.” (Sarcasm)
“The US, Russia, and Ukraine are not signatories to the treaty that bans the munitions, known as the Convention on Cluster Munitions.”
Sometimes it’s really hard to tell the difference between democracies and autocracies.
Remember way back in March of 2022?
“We have seen videos of Russian forces moving exceptionally lethal weaponry into Ukraine which has no place on the battlefield,” the U.S. envoy to the U.N., Linda Thomas-Greenfield, told the General Assembly.
“That includes cluster munitions and vacuum bombs, which are banned under the Geneva Convention.”
Of course they would never lie, recall Gen. Powell and Iraq and the white powder in the little bottle?
I was talking about US hypocrisy.
Lol, lets not forget the Gulf of Tonkin lie that started the Vietnam War, or the 20+ years the gov spent lying about their unwinnable war, as we found out in the Pentagon Papers – thank you Daniel Ellsberg, may you rest in peace.
Then of course there are the Afghanistan Papers Wapo released a couple years ago exposing much the same. And all lies the CIA told about it’s Torture Program…. no wonder the Global World isn’t joining the “unprecedented” Russian sanctions that were supposed to end the war in a few short months.
If all things go well NATO will croak, possibly the EU also.
NATO must go, if that is all this conflict ends with it is at least something. NATO is a very aggressive beast and a danger to the whole planet earth. NATO good riddance, the sooner the better.
There are definitely cracks in Europe. I’ve lost count of the number of countries that have changed leadership. The most recent being the Netherlands whose PM resigned and government collapsed last week over immigration or it’s farmer climate policy – or a combination of both as those farms they’re putting out of business are likely to become immigrant housing. And look at France … though protests seem to have decreased in size and violence, but then it’s hard to know for sure it’s not covered well in the west.
I’m with you … “No 2 NATO. No 2 War”
There was a big demonstration at the American AB in Rammstein this weekend, thousands at the rather remote AB, and there are smaller demonstrations in more cities. In Germany they face much the same issues as in France, lots of refugees, lack of housing and health care bottlenecks, the other social expenses like education, language and other cultural problems. On top of all that is a totally insane government. The Greens are the cherry on the cake. European nations are time bombs in my opinion. How the stupid politicians can think they can keep that up is beyond me. Two women are outstanding, Alice and Sarah, both are competent, impressive, common sense candidates. They are young and educated and mature women, both are good looking, still important in our world.
The opposite of stupid Baerbock from the Greens, The party is a shame of a once great nation. The SPD is a has been party, once the oldest and biggest party, a long time ago.
Jake Sullivan explained why it’s okay for the Ukrainians to use cluster bombs – they’ve given “written assurances” they will be very very very careful and after all, it’s “their citizens” so of course they’ll be uber-careful. Well technically “now” they’ll be careful memory-holing the 8 years they spend killing “their citizens” – with cluster bombs – in the Donbas.
“they will be very very very careful’
Sullivan sounds like Elmer Fudd hunting that wascully wabbit. Sorry Elmer for the comparison.
Just another Biden lie, he talks out his ass so frequently I have a hard time discerning his mouth from his ass lips.
“Kahl insisted that the cluster munitions the US will send to Ukraine were tested and will have a dud rate of 2.35%. But The New York Times reported that the rate will likely be closer to 14% due to factors on the battlefield not taken into account during the Pentagon’s tests.”
Oh boy, “only” 2.35%. As if that’s a good thing.
I thought the same thing … there will only be X thousands of bomblets scattered around the countryside waiting for some kid to pick them up or step on them or ride their bike over them decades from now … whew, what a relief …
Talking about self harm and more isolation on world stage for US on this decision…!
From Twitter: Michael Tracey
@mtracey
Jul 9
September 6, 2006: Biden votes NAY on amendment to limit the “purchase, use, or transfer” of cluster munitions. Credit for consistency, I guess”
Then, we elected him President.
I deeply regret my vote, and never again will I vote for the lesser evil. Bad is bad.
Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil.
Not this We, We didn’t 🙂
“Biden Defends Decision to Send Cluster Bombs to Ukraine”
Was he coherent or did someone else speak for him?
Maybe they need to hire an imposter for old, senile Joe.
The U.S. going around wrecking nations one at a time.
Wash. has to destroy a nation in order to save it. It’s the American Way.
Lol — one at a time? Come now, give our demonic rulers credit, they’re far are more productive, they’re multi-taking failures: wrecking Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen and trying to wreck Syria all at the same time. And of course that’s just what we know about 🙂
Yea, I agree. Why destroy one when you can wreck several at the same time.
Europe could go down with Ukraine if it is a conventional war only.
I think that in a nuclear war the USA would be hit, Russia would make sure and make the USA pay too. Like Putin said there will be no world without Russia.
Biden is too demented to get it and Nuland wears blinders.
Nuland is evil. So are Biden, Blinken, and Sullivan.
Don’t forget, Nuland is married to one of the 2 Kagan brothers.
Oh yes. I am well aware of that. And General Jack Keane works for their Institute for the Study (Promotion)n of War. He’s their shill on FOX.
Thanks, I did not know that little bit, and Blinken is a close friend as I understand, it is as if they went to school together. All are housing in the same big bubble.
Well, with a general in charge it has to be the institute for the promotion of war.
Joe’s 80 and doesn’t know what’s going on most of the time, plus he’s got the Justice Department, the I.R.S. and the F.B.I. looking out for the old demented grifter? What’s he got to worry about?
The next election is all he has to worry about.
I doubt that the old bas…d will be up to it and I don’t think the Globalists want to try and pull Joe over the crooked finish line one more time. The guy is in downward dementia spiral. Give him another two years and he won’t even know what state he’s in, other than confusion.
That establishment could pick Nuland to replace the current VP or make her their presidential candidate, Harris is not smart enough, but then again they picked her in 2020. In the MADHOUSE anything is possible.
My prayer: Lord, please make it rain brain and integrity if possible. We need it badly. Thank you.
Who is really in control of Biden? I think maybe Nuland is, she seems to be in charge of the state department. The bast**** is loosing it rapidly.
A cacophony of demons apparently.
Don’t forget Yugoslavia.
Nothing to worry about folks, the Ambassador of Ukraine says they will use the cluster bombs ‘responsibly’.
insanity keeps lowering the bar
I’d laugh out loud if it wasn’t so tragic, Jake Sullivan explaining they have “written assurances” from Ukraine and after all, “they won’t use cluster bombs on their own citizens.” The same Ukraine that spent 8 years terrorizing and killing – with US support and cluster bombs – their citizens in the Donbas before Putin launched his 2/24/22 SMO.
Ethnic Russians & Russian-speakers, whose language and culture Ukraine outlawed, those citizens, adults and children – to which then pres. Poroshenko said in 2014/15: “We will have our jobs and they will not. We will have our pensions and they will not. We have care for our children, for people and retirees and they will not. Our children will go go to schools and kindergartens, their kids will sit in bomb shelters and basements.”
Thank goodness we got Ukraine’s “written assurances” they won’t do what they’ve been doing 8, now 9 years. If only Ukraine had given written assurances before clearly this war would never have happened – oh wait, they did, by signing the Minsk agreement Poroshenko (and Merkel and Holland) said was a stall to given NATO time to build their army for war with Russia.
ZELENSKY LIED! CAN’T FIND THIS STORY ON US MSM.
“Ukraine’s Top Official Proves Putin Right By Owning Kerch Bridge Attack.
Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Anna Maliar has
made a startling admission regarding the Crimea Bridge sabotage
incident. Maliar disclosed the country’s involvement in the attack on the Crimean Bridge, which Moscow had previously accused Ukraine of orchestrating.” https://www.hindustantimes.com/videos/world-news/zelensky-a-liar-ukraines-top-official-proves-putin-right-by-owning-kerch-bridge-attack-101688906398671.html
Proof positive that Zelensky’s government lies. But now they are telling the truth to bolster their credentials for the upcoming NATO summit.
It should be very interesting, the stupid man could just make demands and insult people in an alliance which is in disarray already. Biden destroys their economy while insisting they supply weapons and fund the war ore else they get hit over the head. And then the clown from Ukraine shows up and demands to become a NATO member.
Very interesting article, especially about the new trend on the web insisting nuclear weapons don’t and never did exist. The collective consciousness, deep down, knows what’s coming, but instead of the people massing for protests, stopping the psychopaths in Wash., and any other anti-war activity, they are slipping into denial in a very big way. https://off-guardian.org/2023/07/09/how-so-many-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-nukes/
FROM ARTICLE: “Social psychosis is widespread. In the words of the British psychiatrist, RD Laing, “The condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one’s mind, is the condition of the normal man.”
YES…!!!!! They put up a good show, but I believe they KNOW just how dangerously far WE have fallen behind. The scope of America’s failure to keep up with cutting edge military technology is staggering. The war on terror caused the U.S. to be distracted and misdirected. Chasing terrorists contributes nothing to peer nuclear powers and delivery systems confrontations. The NEOCONS wanted to achieve “Full Spectrum Dominance” in their ”New American Century” but 22 years in, what dominance have their plans delivered but full spectrum hubris? While we were chasing terrorists around the deserts, the Russians were upping their Great Gamesmanship. They have the best air defense systems so superior to the U.S. ones that Turkey bought the Russian system against the U.S. threats of retaliation against them, a fellow NATO member. They have also brought on line and into their Air Force a new generation of lighter, faster, cheeper, and more nimble fighter jets that are probably as far ahead of the F-35 as their hypersonic missiles are ahead of our current fleet. All our battle ships and carriers are DEFENSELESS again these HYPERSONICS!!! The very fact that Russia picks NOW to confront us in Ukraine shows they feel confident to tweek us and call our intransigence says it all. The U.S has squandered its post WWII dominance & deterrence and the dominos are falling all around.
The Russians were focused on conventional war. NATO was arming and training the Ukrainians to attack Russia and they know they had to win a conventional war, nuclear war is not winnable, it is the get even thing, to make sure everyone is losing. The neocons still don’t get it. There was no nuclear opponent when they dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that has changed now.
The Russians experienced real WW II while the Americans stood on the sideline. The Americans never had to really deal with that kind of a war. They still think all they have to do is drop the bombs on the enemy. They can fight proxy wars without casualties of their own.
Here is a list of the armaments that the NATO Banderite/Nazi’s have already lost;
453 Aircraft, 241 helicopters, 4956 UAV’s, 426 Anti Aircraft systems, 10615 tanks inc. APC’s, 1137 multiple rocket launchers, 5399 rocket launchers and 11565 military automotive equipment.
This is estimated to be worth US $1 Trillion. And they are asking for more. Arrest Obama/Biden et al. for their many many crimes against humanity.
No elections, forced gunpoint conscription, anti retreat troops, book burning, banning of free speech, looting of churches, government death hit lists, mass murder of civilians, ethnic cleansing campaigns, assassination of peace negotiators, bombing of Nuclear power stations, destruction of Europes energy infrastructure, terrorism, rape, torture, massive human rights abuses etc etc etc.
Yep this is a Western war for freedom and democracy right? Up is Down, Black is White its all just big lies after big lies.
There never was a war for freedom and democracies, it is always for land, natural resources, markets, and power.
Freedom and Democracy, LOL that is for kindergarten and grade school kids and suckers.
Bad day for Putin. Cluster munitions will soon be a reality, just like Sweden’s NATO bid being ratified.
But, on the plus side, I get to watch all the Putin-lovers here twist in the wind as they try to come up with new and exciting ways that Putin will finally end his three-day 500 Day War. I’m sure the Grand Chess Master of the World has yet another masterstroke up his sleeve.
In other news, where is the coverage of Sweden entering NATO here on Antiwest.com? Doesn’t appear on the front page…at least at the time I posted this.
Didn’t Joe Biden say cluster munitions were a war crime?