The Associated Press reported Thursday that the Biden administration has decided to arm Ukraine with cluster bombs and will announce the munitions as part of a new $800 million arms package. The news comes after Human Rights Watch (HRW) issued a report that said Ukraine has killed its own citizens using the munitions.
US officials told AP that they expect the arms package to be announced Friday. The White House used to be opposed to arming Ukraine with cluster munitions, as they are indiscriminate weapons that cause harm to civilians, but the concerns have waned.
Cluster bombs scatter small submunitions over large areas, making them especially hazardous to civilians who can find unexploded munitions years after they were dropped. Because of their indiscriminate nature, cluster munitions have been banned by more than 100 nations. The US, Ukraine, and Russia are not parties to the treaty, known as the Convention on Cluster Munitions.
The HRW report said that Ukrainian cluster munition rocket attacks in the eastern city of Izium in 2022 killed at least eight civilians and wounded 15 more. HRW also said Russia’s use of cluster bombs in the war has killed many civilians.
Ukraine’s use of cluster bombs on people living in its eastern territory goes back to 2014, when war first broke out in the Donbas. That year, HRW issued a report that said Kyiv was using the controversial munitions against populated areas of Donetsk. “The use of cluster munitions in populated areas violates the laws of war due to the indiscriminate nature of the weapon and may amount to war crimes,” HRW said.
According to Truthout, Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association, issued a statement on Thursday warning the US against sending cluster bombs to Ukraine. He said doing so would “be escalatory, counterproductive, and only further increase the dangers to civilians caught in combat zones and those who will, someday, return to their cities, towns, and farms.”
The US G’s latest-plumbed depth of genocidal depravity.
The current Kiev regime from the beginning was created as a terrorist state. The terrorist war against Russians is a major US project in Eurasia.
So was Russia invading Ukraine against international law?
Yes or no, comrade?
Self defense against US helplessly pushing world war three for compound budgetary growth expansion.
No, it was not unlawful. Putin was very careful to keep the SMO inside the boundaries of international law. If you are actually interested, you can look it up. You just won’t find it in the NYT or WaPo. The best source may be Putin’s own speeches and other statements. Because, unlike most American leaders, he speaks in complete sentences and organized paragraphs.
I prefer sound bites. It suits my ADD better. But please no platitudes like, “freedom, democracy, liberty, or free world.” Those are just nauseating and most importantly, total lies. (Sarcasm alert)
Inside the boundaries of international law?
Like inside the boundaries of Ukraine?
You funny!!!
Grow up. International law is utterly irrelevant. Nation states, especially powerful nation states, observe it when they think it suits their purposes and not otherwise.
No, because as a legitimate geopolitical entity, “Ukraine” ceased to exist after the unconstitutional U.S. fostered coup d’etat of Feb. 2014.
Was bombing Serbia, invading or bombing Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya against international law, Herr McRocket?
Are you speaking of International Law as the world sees it, or International Law as dictated by the U.S., big difference as the U.S. tends to operate OUTSIDE of International Law.
Not clear. Defending citizens of East Ukraine from West Ukraine could very well count as an acceptable causi belli.
The odds of a court case ever happening are close to zero.
Note that should such a case happen, the odds are that our attacks on Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan would be additional cases.
Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Nicaragua and the rest of Latin America may also be examined in the same time frame.
Don’t forget Syria. And if you’ve got time, Palestine while you’re at it.
Defending citizens of East Ukraine?
The separatists started the war when Putin took Crimea and asked them to fight for their independence under a promise that Putin would support them militarily.
Once again:
https://youtu.be/EgjH_voWIG0
“”The separatists started the war when Putin took Crimea..””
you know that is wrong and we know that you know that is wrong. once again = Ukraine attacked Crimea in 2014 and Russia immediately put a stop to that. to claim otherwise is disingenuous since even the US TV media was reporting on that at the time.
—–
and there it is again! = your dumb video that proves absolutely nothing. but keep knocking yourself out there senior
The US started the war when we overthrew the Ukrainian Democracy and installed the dictator regime in 2014.
Can’t you get it straight? The people in Crimea, who are mostly ethnic Russians, held a plebescite after the U.S. backed Maidan Coup in Kiev. The vote was overwhelmingly in favor of Russia annexing Crimea. International Poll Watchers were invited in to observe the election. The U.S. and U.K. did not send observers because, well, they knew how the vote would turn out. But they complain that it wasn’t a fair vote.
All Putin did was sign the annexation papers. There was no bloody battle. Russian troops, which have always been stationed in Crimea to protect the Black Sea Fleet, were already there and did not invade Crimea.
Now the real skinny on what was being planned by the U.S. and NATO was that Ukraine would tear up the long term lease that Moscow had for stationing troops and its navy in Crimea thereby depriving Russia of her only warm water port. This would deal a crippling blow to Russia’s ability to trade and ship goods in the world.
NATO and the U.S. want to turn the Black Sea into a NATO lake.
Putin, being the master chess player that he is, knew what was in the works, and he checkmated and quickly signed the annexation papers.
The people in the Donbass regions wanted to be annexed to Russia also, but Putin declined. He probably regrets that decision now, but at least it shows he wasn’t coveting Ukrainian land as he could have annexed it back in 2014 without much trouble.
Strawman.
I asked a simple, ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question.
And you could not even answer that.
You just spun it all around to try and justify what Putin did.
Oh, and of course it is clear.
It is illegal under international law to invade another sovereign nation.
Whether that is Afghanistan, Iraq or Ukraine.
‘“The use of force by one country against another is the repudiation of the principles that every country committed to uphold. This applies to the present military offensive. It is wrong. It is against the (United Nations) Charter. It is unacceptable. But it is not irreversible,” Guterres told reporters at U.N. headquarters in New York.
“Stop the military operation. Bring the troops back to Russia. We know the toll of war.”
https://theconversation.com/international-law-says-putins-war-against-ukraine-is-illegal-does-that-matter-177438
We are done here.
Angels on the head of a pin.
actually you asked commentor Mikhailovich “a simple yes or no question”. but Mikhailovich has not replied to your “simple yes or no question” – (maybe he went to the store or he has a job). commentor Woke American is not constrained to limit himself to your imposed “straw-man” rules of response.
I DID answer. I said it is not clear. There are rules as to when nations can intervene to protect people from being massacred. A court would have to have a court case, hear the evidence, and make a decision.
This has not been done.
I will add that the invasion of Iraq was much more serious of a war crime than anything that has been done in Ukraine by either side, and that using DU ammunition with no discussion of cleaning it up afterwards is a war crime all by itself.
And oh yeah, the sanctions on Iraq where Albright said half a million Iraqi children dying was worth it. Our sanctions on Iraq killed as many as the whole Ukrainian conflict up to now. Sanctions kill children, sanctions kill babies.
Yes, if the Responsiblity to Protect civilians (R2P) is accepted as an adumbration on the prohibition to launch aggressive wars, then the Russian SMO in the Ukraine is much more justifiable than were the US attacks against Serbia, Iraq, and Libya. In terms of ongoing violations, the US is attacking the forces of the legitimate, recognized government of Syria, and occupying its land, without much of an R2P, or any other legal, rationale. Similarly, the US’s ally Israel has annexed conquered territory, with the approval of the US.
Amen, brother!
Forgetaboutism at its chronic presentation. Was Madeline Albright a war criminal? Just asking
“We are done here” generally translates to “ I got nuthin.”
Guterres is not the last word. The UNSC has not condemned the operation. Just like it didn’t condemn the various US operations. UN Secretary Generals have in the past condemned US operations, eg, Kofi Annan said in September 2004, that: “From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the invasion of Iraq] was illegal.” So what? A war in violation of the UN charter is a war held to be such by the UNSC, regardless of what the Sec Gen says.
Russia did everything according to the international law. First Russia recognized the independence of Donbass republics. Second step: Russia and Donbass republics signed an agreement for mutual defense. Third step: Russia used military forces to defend Donbass republics from Ukrainian/NATO aggression. According to the international law, every of those three steps was legal. Russia never breached the international law.
Which “international law” is it that you refer to no fewer than three times?
To which “international law” are you and other supporters of neo-Nazism referring when accusing Russia of breaching the international law?
Feel free to point to any instance in which I’ve either supported neo-Nazism or accused Russia of “breaching the international law.”
Or, rather, feel try to try to find any such instances. You won’t, but if you’re bored I suppose it’s as good a way as any to pass the time.
Should have at least counted as “Humanitarian Intervention”. Much more real of a reason for that than we used in Libya. Before the neoconish trolls here start wailing “Whataboutism !”, maybe it should be looked at as our ruling class and NATO having set a precedent. As it was, there wasn’t much of an effort by any international body to condemn our actions in any number of our flauntings of our military might where we basically laid devastation to the countries for which we literally made up reasons for our actions.
“…wailing ‘Whataboutism!'” Exactly! One thing the despicable Deep$hitState operatives perfected is the art to “ACCUSE.” A technique devised by none other than SATAN “The ACCUSER of the brethren,” Revelation 12:9 and 10. There’s nothing wrong with practicing “Whataboutism?” It’s how you discover hypocrisy and lies. By human nature, when they ACCUSE YOU of WHATEVER, you immediately feel targeted and turn defensive, although YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG! And dude! EVIL seems really popular these days and everybody wants to be popular. You can’t even ask, “WHATABOUT ANYTHING THAT MAKES NO SENSE?” (Sarcasm alert)
NATO invaded The Ukraine in 2014.
Moscow’s 2022 peacekeeping mission was invited by the internationally recognized republics of DPR and LPR ( UNSC 2202)
Considering that Anglo-American empire is a terrorist state, it shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. These vultures do it to all countries in Eurasia so Ukraine is just their latest victim.
Nothing like littering Ukraine with land mines that will kill a lot of Ukrainians to show how much you care.
It could very well be that they accept that what used to be Eastern Ukraine is now Western Russia. And Artemovsk is what used to be called Bakhmut.
My thoughts exactly. And this right after Zelensky said that Ukraine must be completely whole before the war can end. Including Crimea. Seems odd. That would mean the depleted uranium and cluster bombs that are the gift that keep on giving after wars end are ok with him.
This is simply state terrorism.
Okay.
So was it state terrorism when Russia used them as well?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_bombs_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
If we were not acting like we are fighting a good moral fight against the forces of evil, then your comment might have some sting.
We fight dirty in some ways, they in others. I put my priority on no nuclear exchanges over anything else that happens there. And I have adjusted to the realities that some of this territory will stay annexed by Russia.
Oh yeah – your implication that both the US AND Russia are terrorist nations is not a complement to the US.
If we were not acting like we are fighting a good moral fight against the forces of evil, then your comment might have some sting.
We fight dirty in some ways, they in others. I put my priority on no nuclear exchanges over anything else that happens there. And I have adjusted to the realities that some of this territory will stay annexed by Russia.
Oh yeah – your implication that both the US AND Russia are terrorist nations is not a complement to the US.
Using cluster munitions especially targeted against civilians is state terrorism. By any military. From any country.
The difference for me is that the US government is providing these munitions. This is by a government that pretends to represent me. It doesn’t.
There is no evidence it even happened, considering all the lies we get from officials without credible evidence it is most likely a propaganda piece.
But the AP would not report the Biden consent if it is not true, it is terrible for the US and Biden reputation to sink that low and resort to cluster bombs.
Agreed. We Americans are given the mushroom treatment: kept in the dark and fed a load of bs. Pretty much the same as the rest of the world.
“Those politicians treat me like a mushroom
They feed me bull and keep me in the blind”
Oh, I have every confidence that ByeDone, the Blinkin’ Idiot, and Too-Many -Cookies Nuland will sink that low!
Leopards, as they say, don’t change their spots.
The two links you provided are only allegations and show no hard evidence.
That war must be going really “well” for Ukraine if they are resorting to this.
What makes you think the US regime’s decisions are predicated on anything more complex than “which contractors are lobbying hardest for us to spend money with them?”
In 2018, Northrup Grumman purchased one of the two major US cluster munitions makers, Orbital ATK. The other one, Textron, got out of that business in 2016. So Northrup Grumman basically has a monopoly on making the stuff in/for the US, and spends lots of money getting the government to buy all the things it makes.
As I understand it, Northrop Grumman/Orbital ATK doesn’t make cluster munitions. Apparently the U.S. “government” has a large stockpile of cluster munitions. In any case, the U.S. regime is apparently comprised of evil ideologues whose decisions are apparently based on their evil ideological agenda, not on contractor lobbying.
If that’s the case, it still doesn’t change the equation: Any munitions drawn from existing stockpiles will be replaced with something. Probably something even more expensive than the item being used up. The “defense” contractors get their money, and Biden gets to brag that he’s “creating jobs” with the expenditures.
Exactly – that’s why leaving all those weapons in Afghanistan was a boondoggle for the weapons industry
They have a pile of nuclear weapons which should be used up, they are close to expiration date. Europe would be a great testing ground.
As I understand it, the handful of defense contractors supplying ordnance to the U.S. “government” are already operating at their maximum production capacity. Given the general industrial decline and supply chain collapse in the U.S., replacing cluster munitions with “something” i.e. any other kind of ordnance (to the extent it will happen in the first place), is a long term prospect. So I don’t think “money” has anything to do with it. As I see it, Biden and his handlers are madmen driven by evil ideology and the increasing reliance on terrorist weapons and tactics reflects their desperation.
China is cutting off the West from rare earths. These are essential for high tech products. Storage is about 1 years worth in the US. Other raw material sources are available, but refining is neither easy or environmentally friendly.
But don’t worry. The military and Ukraine will get first priority. Need a new cell phone? Too bad.
You mean the general industrial decline that has the US producing more than it ever has in its history? That industrial decline there?
According to CSIS(dot)org:
“Because of these long production lead times, the delay between the shipment of weapons and munitions from existing stocks and when replacement systems arrive constitutes a risk. Congress has provided enough money to replace transferred equipment, but the process is lengthy. The United States has provided about $10 billion of equipment from stocks, but only $1.2 billion has been put on contract for replacements. Once contracts are signed, it will still take many years before the replacement equipment arrives at units.”
Pass the salt. These are the same people who used depreciation as an excuse to give Ukraine more money. Depreciation!? Also, they are the same people who misplaced how much? (Sarcasm alert)
https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-sessions-open-probe-into-department-of-defense-after-failing-gao-audit-for-fifth-time%EF%BF%BC/
Mr. T, what’s Amerikkka producing? Third-rate hamburgers? 🤔
Don’t go putting down Amerikkan hamburgers or I’ll sic George Motz on you.
America produces a lot of war materiel. I wish that wasn’t the case, but it does.
It also has an industrial base that produces three times as much as it did before NAFTA, and that is still largely convertible to military demands as it has been since World War II.
If the countries backing Ukraine dedicated 5% of their industrial capacities to war materiel for this conflict (which they won’t do), they’d be producing somewhere in the neighborhood of three times as much war materiel for Ukraine as Russia could produce itself if it dedicated 100% of its industrial capacity to military needs (which it won’t do either).
There is no plausible scenario in which Ukraine’s backers’ war production doesn’t vastly outstrip Russia’s, with at most minor inconvenience to the former and no matter how much inconvenience the latter is willing to undergo.
As for casualty numbers, I don’t trust either side’s claims. But military history says that as long as Ukraine fights a largely defensive war, it kills 2-3 Russians for every Ukrainian it loses. And morale-wise, it’s important to remember that the Russian troops are not idiots and therefore know that they’re just continuing the fiasco to save face for their rulers, while the Ukrainians actually have something important to lose.
I must disagree with your last paragraph, Mr. T. The Ukrainians only stand to lose territories that don’t want to be part of them anyways. Who wishes to rule with an iron fist over a belligerent population? (Well, IsraHell excepting.)
Territories don’t have desires. People do. But yes, it seems reasonably likely that the majority of people in the Donbas prefer to be ruled by Russian thugs rather than Ukrainian thugs (especially now, after a more than a year of war gave people reasons to leave if they didn’t like Russian rule).
The popular desire also contributes to the extreme unlikelihood that the Russians, no matter how many fake referendums they hold, will be able to maintain their grip on Kherson and Zaporzizhia.
Sure, I would if I was as paranoid as some.
Defence stocks are making huge profits. To believe this is anything other than desperation because the war is going badly is kind of paranoid especially to believe it is a pure profit decision.
Honestly I can name a couple of people aound here that would make such a overstatement but I kind of thought you weren’t one of them…lol.
The war is “going badly” for both sides, but I’ve seen no sign that it’s “going badly” enough to produce “desperation” on the part of the Ukrainians. While they would presumably like a flashy “breakthrough” or two for propaganda purposes, they’re well aware that the way they beat the Russians is to remain on the strategic defensive and let the Russian forces beat their heads against a production/supply/logistics differential that makes Ukraine stronger and Russia weaker day after day, 24/7/365.
It’s going much worse for “Ukraine” than it is for Russia. Ukraine is taking unsustainable losses in both manpower and matériel.
Define “unsustainable.”
Some people have been screaming that word about the Ukrainian situation since February of 2022. And if the Russians haven’t found a way to GTFO by then, the same people will still be screaming it in February 0f 2122.
“Define ‘unsustainable.'”
Sure. “Ukraine” is losing men and equipment at a rate faster than the rate at which they can be replaced. In other words, as the war drags on, the military capability of “Ukraine” is deteriorating.
“Some people have been screaming that word about the Ukrainian situation since February of 2022. And if the Russians haven’t found a way to GTFO by then, the same people will still be screaming it in February 0f 2122.”
Those people were correct then and they continue to be correct. The only thing the corrupt collective West can do is delay the inevitable. The eventual defeat of Ukraine is a mathematical certainty.
Unless you’re on the Ukrainian general staff — and probably not even then — you have no idea at what rate Ukraine is losing men and equipment, or whether that rate is faster than the rate at which they can be replaced.
But if you can read GDP and industrial output charts, you can have some idea of how much less capacity the Russians have for replacing their equipment and munitions consumption than the Ukrainians do via their US/EU/NATO support. The simple five-word answer to that question is “a full order of magnitude.”
Ukraine’s future economy was already endangered before this war began because of the alarmingly rapid decline of Ukraine’s population. In 1993 the population was near 52 million. By the onset of the war it was near 42 million and still dropping. A loss of 20% of population in about 30 years!
The war has only made that problem even more acute.
For sheer economic survival Ukraine cannot afford to punish the Russian speaking East-Ukrainians of the Donbas.
After the Russians are kicked out, if that comes to pass, Ukraine will be an economic basket case. NATO membership will not solve that problem.
P.S. The population loss from 1993 to 2023 is even larger than I had estimated. The population decreased from 51.8 million to 36.7 million, a loss of 25.1 million.
If that would happen here the loss would be 170 million Americans.
Oh, yeah, Ukraine is screwed six ways from Sunday. Being “conquered by Russia” is one of the few things it doesn’t have to worry about.
Another is “the Russian speaking East-Ukrainians of the Donbas.” They’re now, and are likely to remain, the Russian speaking Russians of the Donbas. And should have been treated as such since 2014.
If only the Russians of the Donbas had been treated as Russians beginning in 2014, a whole lot of death and suffering would have been avoided. I just want to see this conflict come to an end.
“Unless you’re on the Ukrainian general staff — and probably not even then — you have no idea at what rate Ukraine is losing men and equipment, or whether that rate is faster than the rate at which they can be replaced.”
On the contrary there is enough information available in the public domain (for anyone determined to sort through the propaganda to find it) to support the conclusion that Ukraine’s losses are unsustainable.
For example, just look at the size and population comparison. Russia presently has about four to five times the population of Ukraine, right? So assuming for the sake of argument that both sides are losing troops at the same rate (which they are not), Ukraine is going to run out of manpower first.
“But if you can read GDP and industrial output charts, you can have some idea of how much less capacity the Russians have for replacing their equipment and munitions consumption than the Ukrainians do via their US/EU/NATO support. The simple five-word answer to that question is ‘a full order of magnitude.'”
Don’t tell me about “GDP.” Russia is routinely taking out expensive Western weapons – multi-million dollar tanks and artillery systems – with $35k drones; we’re talking about roughly two orders of magnitude cost difference here. How is that sustainable for the West?
Mr. T, according to Consortium News, Ukraine is running out of draft-age men. They’ll eventually go the way of the Confederacy in the US Civil War…. Fighting with old men and little boys, god help them, unless they start drafting young women. (Unlikely).
That is unless, their “allies” step up to the plate and sacrifice their own for ZelBoy. (HIGHLY unlikely.)
Then you have not been paying attention very much.
And you still are on hung up on your logistics even over a year later as if that’s a stationary state that Russia has not been working on with its sanction busting (as if sanctions work anyway)?
Is the 12th round of sactions going to work when the other 11 haven’t?
Russia’s factories are churning out arms; how’s Ukraine doing?
Still begging or do they have their factories up and running?
I wonder how the coalition’s health nowadays?
I hear France is having a few troubles….
France will be fine once they raise the retirement age above life expectancy.
The dirty little secret about Social Security here is that if you remove the income cap whle keeping the payout amount cap it is “fixed”.
Sure the rich get screwed, but I do not care.
😂
Next weeks US/NATO meeting will be very interesting to watch.
What on earth are you babbling about? Russia having a tiny fraction of the production capacity of its adversaries has little if anything to do with “sanctions.”
Ukraine’s doing fine, because the factories of Ukraine’s supporters are “churning out arms” several times as fast as the factories of Russia.
I’m babbling about Russian production capacity that you obviously have no idea what that entails. I bet you are ready with the CIA’s satellite data showing a 5% drop in production as if spooks’ musings about smoke is reliable about anything.
Don’t even try that nonsence that you keep referring to with me repeatedly about satellites….
Nor have you bothered to understand how they are able to keep their factories churning away.
That you actually keep postulating your “logistics” nonsence is getting to be laughable just as you seem to believe depedency on others is a substitute for one’s own production.
I know in your world nothing changes and Russia is on the cusp of collapse but that is just laughible just as your claims Ukraine’s offensive is occomplishing anything more than the taking of undefended hamlets.
“Nor have you bothered to understand how they are able to keep their factories churning away.”
I’ve seen little evidence that they ARE able to keep their factories “churning away.”
There’s probably more than one reason why the newly arriving tanks on the battlefield are largely refurbs — The T-14 Armata is apparently still not quite ready for prime time even if they COULD produce it at speed, and the utility of the main battle tank in its traditional role seems to be in question anyway — but that so many of them are T-55s indicates that they’re having trouble producing the more modern parts required to refurb/modernize T-72s, T-80s, and T-90s.
According to Russian government statistics, the country’s industrial output fell slightly in 2022, but in 2023 they claim substantial year-on-year increases, specifically in manufacturing (but with e.g. utilities taking a hit). If the current bull run of claimed increases continues, Russia might be able to produce 1/10th as much as its adversaries … by 2050. That is IF the Russian government statistics are believable.
Lol
You are so full of it yet you keep babbling the same nonsence week after week.
Where are their shortages?
Where are the lines collapsing because of your silly “logistics” are failing?
What battles have Ukraine won because of Russian shortages?
Their shortages show in their failure to accomplish anything substantial since taking Bakhmut — which it took them eight months to do.
They’ve been bogged down for more than a year now, against an opponent with less than 1/3 their population. The question is not why the Russian lines aren’t breaking, it’s why the Ukrainian lines aren’t breaking. The reason the Ukrainian lines aren’t breaking is that the Ukrainians are backed by countries that are producing far more munitions, and delivering them far more reliably, at substantially less cost to themselves as a portion of their economies.
And as long as the Ukrainians don’t get too idiotic with trying to put on showy “offensives” for propaganda, the Russians will remain bogged down until the Russians decide to go (at least mostly) home.
Sure…
They’ve dug in, not bogged down as your state department tells you.
It’s amazing how much bs you believe as they tell you to.
Where are the breakouts?
You claimed, wrongly, that Russia is having supply issues that are causing them problems so where are the Ukrainians taking advantage of your claims of “logistical” (lol) failure on Russia’s part?
Where is Putin being kicked out of Ukraine?
Perhaps it’s Crimea where this claim of yours is happening?
No? Not there either?
The only place “this claim of mine is happening” is in your fevered imagination.
We’re now back to you pretending I claimed X, so that you can argue against Claim X, which you find more convenient to argue against than Claim Y, the claim I actually made.
My position, ever since the Russian forces failed to settle matters in their initial lunge, giving the Ukrainians time to avail themselves of US/EU/NATO military aid, has been that all Ukraine has to do to get through this is let the Russians beat their heads against the wall until the Russians get tired of beating their heads against the wall, because the Russians lack the manufacturing and logistics capacity to compete with US/EU/NATO support.
And ever since the Russian forces failed to settle matters in their initial lunge, the facts on the ground have proven my position correct.
Meanwhile, you sit there tapping your foot impatiently waiting for the Ukrainians to collapse because you fantasize that Russia can “churn out” and deliver the war materiel required to change the fundamental situation.
Stop it, I do not care.
You’ve used your satellite smoke photos one too many times with me for you to claim otherwise.
Now your back to your logistics nonsence (do you have a subscription to that business mag. “Logistics” which is why you are so hung up on that word?)
Have you ever heard of “chokepoints” in regards to production lines? How about, “just in time” in regards to not only manufacturing but to shipping as well?
Do you understand how one discerns which production chokepoint to focus on which can be ignored or fixed later?
Or perhaps you’ve delved into the decision process in regards future needs?
I’m pretty sure the Russians have and much more.
Facts on the ground haveproven you correct?
Lol!
You construct the reasons in your head as to why they went in and what their purpose was, then you decide that because they “failed” to follow your imagination, you’ve been proven correct….
Lawdy….that is a knee slapper….lol.
Yes, satellite data does indicate a drop-off in pollution associated with manufacturing.
But the main clue that they’re not producing what they need to crush the Ukrainians is that what they need to crush the Ukrainians isn’t arriving — else they’d have, you know, crushed the Ukrainians.
Instead, they’ve been at an overall standstill for more than a year. They did finally manage to take Bakhmut after eight months of throwing bodies at it. Whoop-de-doo.
So you still believe your western “sources” that Putin was going to try to take so much more than those providences along with keeping Crimea…..so comical…..
Sure he was; that way we can say you were proven correct….
So you are repeating the State Department’s claims about what Russia’s intentions were, with your always present hubris that’s bordering on the comical today.
Sure, whatever….Russia really was trying to take the entire country just like Victoria says they were and those valiant Ukrainians fought them to a standstill.
Soon Russia’s logistisics (lol) will collapse and they will be forced back to Russia.
I am laughing so hard right now as you repeat the tripe you keep posting, trying to convince everyone is will become true…because YOU say so…..lol.
I am unaware that the US State Department ever claimed that Russia’s intentions were to secure the seceded Donbas republics and a land corridor to Crimea. Their general tone has, so far as I can tell, ranged from “OMG PUT WANTS TO RECONSTITUTE THE SOVIET BLOC!?!” to “OMG PUTIN JUST REALLY LIKES BOMBING PRESCHOOLS!”
At no point have I said that Russia’s logistics will “collapse.” What I have said is that Ukraine’s allies have the ability to easily, with little inconvenience to themselves, outmatch Russia’s all-out production/logistics capacity (the redirection to military needs of which is already, according to the Russian government’s own statistics, coming out of the hide of utilities/infrastructure production) such that the Russians can beat their heads against the wall for as long as they want to, and that when they stop, they will end up with, at most, the seceded Donbas republics and a land corridor to Crimea (maybe not even the latter).
As to what WILL come true, I could be wrong.
But for the last 14 months I’ve been proven right over and over and over.
Really?
“I’ve seen little evidence they ARE able to keep their factories churning away”
That is a quote, of yours, from the beginning of this thread.
Now you are claiming Russia’s logistics (what a silly term you use btw; it’s cute but not actually very descriptive of a complex system/economy) won’t collapse and they will be able sustain their war efforts?
That is in a nutshell why I do not take you seriously, but you keep trying; I need the laugh even though the schoolyard, “I’ve been proven right” is quite funny in itself.
You “don’t take me seriously” because that wouldn’t be as fun as making up stuff to attribute to me and then arguing with the stuff you made up instead of with what I actually said.
Which is fine. Whatever gets you through the night, etc.
I quoted you and now you are denying what you wrote.
You are absolutely beclowning yourself.
Too much sidney?
Microdosing does catch up with you.
Have you seen this so-called “satellite data?” And, if so, have you seen previous readings, so that you can make a comparison? And, if so, are you qualified to analyze them? OR, are you just relying on the Wall Street Journal (LOL!), which in turn purports to be relying on what some Western agency says?
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/russian-economy-industrial-decline-air-pollution-satellite-data-ukraine-war-2023-5
Never thought I’d get to this point, but you are trolling. Blocked.
Biden said Russia is running out of ammunition, which is the reason he is sending cluster bombs to Russia. So, he is correct. …Wait! …Was that Russia or Ukraine? Did I mix them up again? (Bad timing sarcasm)
“Nor have you bothered to understand how they are able to keep their factories churning away.”
I’ve seen little evidence that they ARE able to keep their factories “churning away.”
There’s probably more than one reason why the newly arriving tanks on the battlefield are largely refurbs — The T-14 Armata is apparently still not quite ready for prime time even if they COULD produce it at speed, and the utility of the main battle tank in its traditional role seems to be in question anyway — but that so many of them are T-55s indicates that they’re having trouble producing the more modern parts required to refurb/modernize T-72s, T-80s, and T-90s.
According to Russian government statistics, the country’s industrial output fell slightly in 2022, but in 2023 they claim substantial year-on-year increases, specifically in manufacturing (but with e.g. utilities taking a hit). If the current bull run of claimed increases continues, Russia might be able to produce 1/10th as much as its adversaries … by 2050. That is IF the Russian government statistics are believable.
Zelensky has no reason to be desperate, the money keeps coming and he is traveling while his wife is in Paris shopping, she may be on the way to shop in D.C. where it is safer at the moment.
US/NATO and EU are more likely to break apart before Russia, Biden made sure of that. Would the USA alone handle the long haul, providing boots on the ground to fight Russia?
Nuclear weapons could solve the problem.
Excellent info. Tbanks.
According to Biden, the simple answer is that the Ukraine is running out of “regular” ammunition. Apparently, the US must be running out too….
Asked by a reporter Friday afternoon why he decided to send Ukraine the cluster munitions now, Biden said, “They’re running out of ammunition.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/bidens-move-ukraine-cluster-munitions-sparks-democratic-blowback-rcna93136
Which begs two questions: 1. How effective are cluster bombs against Russian tanks? And more importantly, 2. Are you actually winning the war if you’re about to run out of ammunition? People forgot that after 20 years of fighting people in sandals, we lost to the Taliban! I’m no expert, but in comparison, the Russians seem to have a lot of Russian shovels if you catch my drift. (Sarcasm alert)
The Ukraine is always, simulataneously, clearly winning the war, through its brave and clever actions, against the bumbling, brutal invaders, AND in desperate need of the wonder weapon du jour because, err…..
…And as Ukraine defeats Russia, Russia will invade Europe within a year! Is anyone tracking? This was supposed to happen a week ago this year: https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putin-could-invade-europe-within-a-year-volodymyr-zelensky-warns-nato
Sullivan now saying same thing:
As I mentioned, because we’ve seen all of these reports on the provision of cluster munitions to Ukraine, I will leave it to the Pentagon to make a formal announcement later this afternoon for the next drawdown package and to go into the details of that drawdown package and the specifics on the types of munitions being provided. But I will use this opportunity here today to make a few points.
First, we base our security assistance decision on Ukraine’s needs on the ground, and Ukraine needs artillery to sustain its offensive and defensive operations.
Artillery is at the core of this conflict. Ukraine is firing thousands of rounds a day to defend against Russian efforts to advance and also to support its own efforts to retake its sovereign territory.
We have provided Ukraine with a historic amount of unitary artillery rounds, and we are ramping up domestic production of these rounds. We’ve already seen substantial increases in production, but this process will continue to take time, and it will be critical to provide Ukraine with a bridge of supplies while our domestic production is ramped up. We will not leave Ukraine defenseless at any point in this conflict, period.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2023/07/07/press-briefing-by-press-secretary-karine-jean-pierre-and-national-security-advisor-jake-sullivan-5/
Russian has been using white phosphorous and cluster munitions in Ukraine for a while, does that mean their war is going well since they resorted to the same thing Ukraine wants?
So mimicing the evil empire is a sign of success?
Prove it, we attacked Iraq based on lies, why believe anything that comes from an insane asylum in D.C. or Ukraine. What evidence is there? Stop spreading lies.
Donny believes everything his rulers tell him to believe.
It’s a easy way to live…
Speaking for yourself. You are the Kremlin spokesperson of this blog.
Really Donny?
I can easily see a war not going well for one side and that makes me a mouthpiece?
The LSD consumption among some around around here……
Prove what? The F you talking about?
I can’t speak for him, but it would seem he’d like some proof as to what you said about Russia using white phosphorous and cluster munitions.
“Report: US Will Provide Ukraine Cluster Bombs as Part of New Weapons Package”
The insanity of Joey Senile Biden marches on.
There is money to be made, that is all that counts.
Who made the decision, demented Biden or Nuland the vampire. Who does decide anything in the crazy WH institution??
Maybe someone with a bag of cocaine in the White House.
There must be many in this WH.
The coke was found in a secure area of the WH. Did Hunter visit?
I’m gonna bet it was Don Jr’s. They were too busy moving national security documents out of the Situation Room and left Don Jr’s stash behind.
I support Ukraine. But nothing can justify the use of cluster bombs. Especially on your own territory. Collateral damage is the essential purpose of cluster munitions.
I don’t disagree but both sides have already used them and if it accelerates the Ukrainian victory then it saves live in the end.
The key to winning an asymmetric war of national resistance is winning the hearts and minds of the indigenous people. Cluster bombs could be counterproductive for Ukraine.
True. But the Ukes haven’t been wrong yet in the weapons they’ve asked for. I figure they must have boots-on-the-ground that are telling the higher-ups what they need to get the job done…
Sure, that’s it. And yes, that is sarcasm. Thick sarcasm.
N/A
All sides have been using them, Ukraine, NATO and Russia…..however Ukraine has been using them in the Donbass against civilians for nearly 10 years.
Ukraine was using them to murder the people of the Donbass even during the NATO miss-named ATO. Donetsk has been shelled by these cluster munitions (petal mines) against all conventions. The civilians in Donetsk City place buckets over them when they are found. These are war crimes.
White Lines Matter!
Why is a mentally impaired president not resigning due to mental health. He is not of sound mind to sign his will, but he can push the red button, how insane is the administration and the congress? We do have a dangerous feeble minded head of state, who is in charge, we the people, should demand to know.
How come in our “sacred” democracy, the people aren’t given a chance to weigh in on whether they want to pay for helping a regime against another regime, or stopping our own invasion at our southern border? Huh?
CT, I prefer to think of him as the Vegetable in Chief. Hell, I pulled radishes from the garden yesterday with superior brain function.
Ukraine’s use of cluster bombs on people living in its eastern territory goes back to 2014, when war first broke out in the Donbas. That year, HRW issued a report that said Kyiv was using the controversial munitions against populated areas of Donetsk.
right then. Ukraine claiming that Donbas is part of Ukraine but then cluster bombing civilians in Donbas (people who Ukraine claim belong to them) when those civilians choose to separate from Ukraine. “oh we will teach you a lesson you separatists – take THAT!”
also Ukraine = “Crimea belongs to us! (that’s why we attacked them and will continue to attack them until they learn their lesson and return to us)”
cluster munitions courtesy of uncle sam.
——–
HRW also said Russia’s use of cluster bombs in the war has killed many civilians
well Russia is the evil enemy so we shouldn’t be surprised that they bomb Ukraine, right?
what we shouldn’t expect is that giving cluster bombs to our vassal Ukraine would result in Ukraine bombing the people who they claim are their own people.
There have been no reports of Russia having used clusterbombs in Ukraine. “HRW also said” sounds a bit halfhearted, is it true?
according to this article it is
What about evidence and sources, is HRW still a reliable source?
No. It never was.
Joe should send his grandchildren to play in the area they are deployed if he thinks this is such a great idea.
I don’t think he cares about his grandchildren or any children, power and more money is what does count.
I think I can relate more to Hunter who’s passion for fast cars, cocaine and hookers at least sounds appealing before addiction and health issues derail the ride.
Biden just threw away years of posturing to create the image that he holds the high moral ground.
It was a mistake to ignore the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine when he warned that Ukraine was not properly prepared for this counteroffensive. Rather than admit that, Biden is, as usual, doubling down. But this time, he won’t be seen as tough. He’ll be seen as desperate.
Cluster munitions are the only thing the US has left in quantity to offer Ukraine that might make a military difference, other than the army tactical missile system, 300 mile range. Both would be a desperate and dangerous escalation, but cluster bombs mostly just put Ukrainians and their future in even more danger, while long range missiles would more quickly lead us towards nuclear escalation. The US government wants to do lots of aggression without lots of risk to Americans. Ukrainians of course are disposable.
OK, tankies. Time to stop clutching your pearls and looking for a fainting couch!
https://www.dw.com/en/russia-uses-cluster-bombs-extensively-in-ukraine-report-says/a-62927491
Good for the goose…
The word “Tankie” is the 5th edition intel vocab book. We only have 4th edition because the war isn’t going well for the west. Can you make some copies?
Which part isn’t going well?
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-7-2023
Click your heels three times and say, “there is no place like home.”
I expect to hear that from you, nhmakingwaves. I’ve suspected for a long time that you were a “Russian propagandist” wave maker. (I’m kidding, you’re my brother) But to hear that referenced report from HRW? …That. just. really. hurts. a lot. Sniff. Sniff. (Sarcasm alert)
My issue is Kremlin seem to be completely fine with killing AFU. They could have ended this war before it even started in 2014 simply by being more proactive against Anglo-American imperial aggression. They could end it today in a week issuing a direct warning against weapons and munitions supplies, going to DEFCON 1 and exterminating few Pentagon bases in Mideast. Killing few thousand Pentagon grunts will show seriousness of intent. Kremlin is just as guilty of Ukrainian genocide as Anglo-American parasites. Considering the overwhelming military might of the Russian Federation, this “fear of escalation” narrative is laughable. They profit from this war with Anglo-American empire and Ukrainians suffer.
R u f… insane. Any nuking of us bases will lead to mad. U thin radiating west asia will lead to all embracing Russia as saviors? U think a country that mostly produces raw materials be it food or energy can actually dictate terms to the entire world? If africa can farm at industrial scale they can out produce u ruskie same goes for energy and if Russian leadership thinks like u the world will band together to make that a possibility. F Russia and f us if they want to kill themselves but this type of carnage affects us.
And no RF doesn’t have overwhelming military might. They can’t even take a deeply corrupt country in a full on conflict after a year of war. These types of comments makes me think maybe those nafo pests have some point with regards to slav mentality.
They could have taken out Ukraine way back at the beginning and that has been the major criticism of Putin’s strategy. Whether it’s true or not that the didn’t want to inflict massive damage on Ukraine, as Paul Craig Roberts has stated in his many articles, by Putin not taking a more aggressive stance towards the war in the beginning, it has allowed the U.S., NATO and whoever else to help Ukraine with weapons, training, etc. Ironically, his softness in prosecuting the war in the beginning makes it more likely that it will escalate into WW3.
As I see it Paul Roberts is wrong about this. He keeps repeating himself, yet no matter how many times he says it, he’s still wrong.
He claims that if Russia had only been more aggressive at an earlier time, WW3 could’ve been avoided.
This “reasoning” ignores the painfully obvious fact that the war in Ukraine is merely a kinetic manifestation of the Satanists’ hybrid war against Russia, the non-negotiable goal of which is to destroy Russia.
For all Paul Roberts (or anyone else) knows, WW3 might have already started if Russia had been more aggressive at some earlier time.
On the other hand, an argument can be made that by going slow in Ukraine, Russia will be much better prepared for the inevitable direct conflict with NATO when it happens.
Us took Iraq relatively easily did not work out for them. Putin is more rational he wanted to use kid gloves because he didn’t want to make new enemies. He even tried to go back to status quo when he realized they won’t fold which was smart of him( I admire the guy immensely, he is essential for the multipolar order prevailing). He escalated by degree because miscalculation can end it all. If he wasn’t cautious and didn’t take countermeasures in wake of 2014 and prepared for all thses years Russian economy would’ve crumbled by now.
The mistake was launching the war in the first place( with this regards the one’s who disagree with me just see things differently than me and we will never agree on this point)
The issue with the poster is how casually he talks about nukes.
When I don’t understand something, I ask questions. This isn’t only good education but it expands understanding, conversation and cooperation. It’s not a good idea to make conclusions based on own unverified assertions and make more assertions based on that. Where do you see me mentioning nukes ITT?
A missile barrage with conventional weapons will not …destroy bases not with so much air defense. The amounts of hypersonic with conventional tips needed to make it possibility for annihilation of multiple us bases is impossible. Don’t play games what u suggested was tactical nuclear strikes.
Hmm so no strikes in Europe in us bases even though us sending actual weapons to kill Russians and training Ukrainian but eh brown lives don’t matter much with regards to fallout.
Even in the unlikely event it was done with conventional systems us can hit Russia in it’s bases in Belarus Syria abkhazia and other places leading to cycle of escalation leading to mad
There is simply no need for nukes. Imperial forces are not significant in Eurasia and not a significant threat to Russia in any way. Conventional missile attack will be enough to hit and destroy Pentagon forces in Syria or Iraq. The damage itself to imperial forces isn’t very significant. There just need to be large amount of dead Pentagon grunts. The social and political fallout of the attack will be devastating for the empire. Of course retaliation against Russia is possible but unlikely after suffering a massive blow and severe threat of escalation leading to nuclear war. The Anglo-American parasites will not escalate when faced with the prospect of complete annihilation. It is simply not their nature. They are cowards, vultures and parasites.
There is no need at “taking out” Ukraine at all. Russia isn’t at war with Ukraine. The war is with Anglo-American empire.
It isn’t just Kremlin. One major problem with Slavic mindset is we are too peaceful. Always tolerate barbaric aggression to maintain peace. Always seeking to negotiate peace no matter how fragile it may be. As a result, our civilization is always forced to fight defensive wars on own territory and suffer heavy casualties from barbarian invasions. This need to be solved once and for all. Anglo-American empire must die and nothing like it should ever rise again. Any aggression against Slavic civilization must be punished without remorse.
I apologize if I offended you. I was trying to point out the Deep$hitState operatives’ technique of accusing us of siding with Russia whenever we destroy their arguments. I took it too far. Please forgive me, NHMAKINGWAVES. You’re like a brother.
After you ask yourself why are we there in the first place, you’ll realize that our Department of State is hell-bent on not only destroying Russia but Ukraine as well. Our neocon masters have a centuries-old antipathy toward Russia, Ukraine, and ultimately the USA as well.
The reason for attack on Slavic civilization is simple. Our people are ungovernable. These imperial parasites understand that truly Free people are their greatest threat. America was their primary target before. There are still few rebellious people left in America but overall Americans have submitted to imperial dictatorship.
That can only be the perspective of our neocon masters. This war is as much a war on Ukraine as it is a war on Russia. We’re all waiting for the next shoe to drop, the false-flag event that will push the USA into a catastrophic war with Russia. There will be no “rebellious” people left on the planet Earth after that.
And besides that BlackRock, J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs and other behemoths are already planning on how they will loot Ukraine.
Good luck with all of that. A poisoned irradiated Ukraine will not be of any use to anyone following the above mentioned false-flag event.
I 100% disagree with this.
But Russia used numerous cluster bombs in Ukraine.
So let’s not get all high and mighty now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61778433
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_bombs_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
BOTH SIDES are wrong in this war.
No matter what the Putin/Biden bots on this site say.
Both sides are wrong. But the issue is that we are NOT Ukraine and the American people NEVER voted for a war with Russia. No matter what the hawks are saying in Congress, they have not declared war on Russia. The more Biden escalates this, the more likely it is that we are dragged further and further into an actual war with Russia and Americans are sent to their deaths in Donetsk just like the thousands we send to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. And let’s please not forget that at any moment it can escalate from cluster bombs into atomic bombs. The more we push, the more likely that happens.
If Biden had not wanted this war there would not have been a war. All he had to do was to instruct Zelensky to implement the Minsk agreement and no NATO membership but neutrality for Ukraine, just like prosperous Austria.
Instead Biden blocks every initiative of diplomatic negotiations and an end to the slaughter of the Ukrainian and Russian people. Putin had reasonable and legitimate grievances and a rational common sense solution. Just a reminder, Russians do honor contracts and agreements, not so the USA.
The Washington deranged leadership is likely to go for nuclear war, they are not normal people, that is the real global danger, the crazies in DC. Deranged Biden and Nuland and neocons are frightening.
“BOTH SIDES are wrong in this war.”
That’s a pointless, irrelevant, even silly comment.
There is no agreed-upon standard by which to judge right and wrong in a conflict like this. And the decision-makers on all sides are quite certain that they are right.
If you are interested in questions of right and wrong in this snowballing catastrophe, direct your attention to the leaders of your own nation, whichever that is. It’s possible that you share a moral and ethical framework on which such things can be judged. It’s even remotely possible that arguments based on such a framework might have a measurable effect. It’s extremely unlikely, but at least theoretically possible.
As for the other sides, just remember that they think they are right and don’t care at all what you or their opponents think.
BBC is not credible, nor is AI, the one photo of the damaged car next to the playground showed no damage on the houses and playground. There were no reports about hundreds of civilian casualties either, looks like plain old propaganda. They need to do better.
Looks like you are pro kremlin.
They make all of us complicit in war crimes, next step will be nuclear weapons, Zelensky demands it. Democracy does come with responsibility, the government acts in the name of the voters.
We have a demented president, a lifelong war monger and he promotes criminals in his administration.
Elliott Abrams, defending the destruction of a refugee camp, cluster bombs to notsees. Quite a week for the Biden administration.
Biden never had character and integrity, he always was a big hypocrite. Politicians are liars, no doubt, but a little decency and integrity is not too much to ask.
I agree. The moral squalor is bipartisan and systemic.
Neocons United for War and Empire, LLC, announces complete takeover of the Biden administration.
New motto:
“What’s good for the defense contractors is good for America. And don’t you damn well forget it!”
Same pattern: We or a NATO member contemplating or thinking about giving the Regime this or that weaponry. Let a week or two pass, then the decision of “By God, we’re going to do it.”
We can only hope PM Orban sticks to his guns at the NATO meeting and others have the courage to join him. Don’t count on the POS Scholz and Macron who could make a difference if they had character and integrity, they don’t, they are just garbage like most of the US/NATO really they are war criminals by refusing to put an end to the slaughter which they could do. Biden could have avoided the war if he had wanted to. They make you want to pu*e.
Our intel community has been hacking private communications from our so-called “friends” for years. They have personal dirt on them, and that’s why they go along with the ringleader. See J. Edgar Hoover for the domestic version of this from decades ago.
I think that is the only way we could get such morally bankrupt governments, yes, and money plays an additional role.
They are criminal characters, recall all the assassinations we had starting with the Kennedy brothers, and the civil rights leaders like MLK and Malcolm X and more. How else would a character like Elliot Abrams get promoted. Biden has no shame.
Sleepy Joe does what he is told by the ruling class.As a result the cities are dying,rivers are polluted,roads and bridges are falling apart. Our Medical and Educational systems are a failure and the Bankers are ripping the entire country off. The fossil fuel industry will sooner rather then later will kill every living thing on the PLANET
He is breaking his oath of office which is to protect the welfare of the nation. Do we have any leader in government with a conscience? All we have is criminal, insane opportunists.
I AM 80 years old and I cannot remember an honest politician.JFK woke b up and turned his back n on the military so they killed him.
Well, this biden admin is a criminal regime so it should surprise no one that it will engage in war crimes without any restraint.
That has been the case of every Administration since before I was born and will continue until we all bite the dust for the benefit of profit and power of select few.
The pigs of the defense industry are opening some inexpensive chompeagn this weekend.
Bloody cowards… In peppering Ukraine with cluster bombs, they are not only yielding defeat, but realizing and admitting that none of the new Russian oblasts will be ceded… Go figure…
And what will be next? They are demented losers in D.C. they are able and willing to go nuclear. They have no common sense at all.
Sending banned weapons of slightly less mass destruction certainly sets a precedent. This is madness. A sane nation would be in the streets.
Here is a list of the armaments that the Banderite/Nazi top General has already lost;
452 Aircraft, 241 helicopters, 4921 UAV’s, 426 Anti Aircraft systems, 10566 tanks inc. APC’s, 1135 multiple rocket launchers, 5370 rocket launchers and 11493 military automotive equipment.
This is estimated to be worth US $1 Trillion. And they are asking for more. Arrest Obama/Biden et al. for their many many crimes against humanity.
No elections, forced gunpoint conscription, anti retreat troops, book burning, banning of free speech, looting of churches, government death hit lists, mass murder of civilians, ethnic cleansing campaigns, assassination of peace negotiators, bombing of Nuclear power stations, destruction of Europes energy infrastructure, terrorism, rape, torture, massive human rights abuses etc etc etc.
Yep this is a Western war for freedom and democracy right? Up is Down, Black is White its all just big lies after big lies.
Another act of desperation by U.S. Stay down Rocky, getting a brain damage or winding up like Apollo isn’t worth it.
Kremlin seem to have increased strikes on Anglo-American mercenary forces in Ukraine. After strike on Kramatorsk, they’ve launched large Kalibr missile attack on mercs in Lvov. I think this is a positive sign but not enough to force surrender of Anglo-American empire. Large-scale attacks on all imperial assets in Eurasia will force Washington to negotiate.
The Russian Ministry of Defense announced on July 7 that Kiev forces had launched several new attacks in the directions of Donetsk, Krasny Liman and South Donetsk.
Ukrainian losses in the Donetsk direction amounted to 420 troops, three tanks, seven infantry fighting vehicles, four pickup trucks, a D-20 howitzer, and a Polish-made Krab self-propelled howitzer.
Ukrainian losses in the Krasny Liman direction amounted to 95 troops, one tank, four armored fighting vehicles, four pickup trucks, one Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer and one D-30 howitzer in this direction, the ministry said.
Ukrainian losses in the South Donetsk direction amounted to 200 Ukrainian soldiers, 2 infantry fighting vehicles, 2 armored fighting vehicles, 3 motor vehicles, 2 Gvozdika self-propelled artillery systems, 1 Msta-B howitzer, and 1 British-manufactured AF-90 self-propelled artillery system.
Here is a list of the armaments that the Banderite/Nazi’s have already lost;
452 Aircraft, 241 helicopters, 4921 UAV’s, 426 Anti Aircraft systems, 10566 tanks inc. APC’s, 1135 multiple rocket launchers, 5370 rocket launchers and 11493 military automotive equipment.
This is estimated to be worth US $1 Trillion. And they are asking for more. Arrest Obama/Biden et al. for their many many crimes against humanity.
No elections, forced gunpoint conscription, anti retreat troops, book burning, banning of free speech, looting of churches, government death hit lists, mass murder of civilians, ethnic cleansing campaigns, assassination of peace negotiators, bombing of Nuclear power stations, destruction of Europes energy infrastructure, terrorism, rape, torture, massive human rights abuses etc etc etc.
Yep this is a Western war for freedom and democracy right? Up is Down, Black is White its all just big lies after big lies.
Arrest an ex President of the US who got a peace prize is not going to happen in my lifetime or yours.
OOOO Joy, Cluster bombs for the clusterf#(k in Ukraine.. Thanks to the clusterfarts Obama, Clinton Nuland, Pratt and Biden, out to blow up OUR world if they cant have their “Full Spectrum Dominance” & the HEGEMONY it grants!!! Luckily it looks like their bold moves have met a dynamic force that is thousands of times stronger and more deadly than any of the ones like Afghanistan that scattered them in such recent quests. Have fun with your clusters bums & whatever surprises they may engender….!!!!!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a950d2e667c2c4f6b9dc041404926a62ae10f38a868d0ac53d5ca8b1a57af2b.jpg
Never gets old.
i wish it would NOW.
Ever read ‘The Bomb’ by Howard Zinn?
No, I haven’t.
You will Love it!
The MSM is using Biden’s logic. But, has anyone followed Biden’s logic for one more move? Biden: “They ran out of ammunition, so we gave them cluster bombs.” Putin: “We ran out of cluster bombs, so we’re gonna use nuclear weapons.”. … What’s that? You’re calling me stupid? LOL. I don’t care. (Sarcasm)
Some signs of life, and morality, from some of the progs in Congress (and at least one Republican as well).
Will they back down the moment they get any push back, like they did last time?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/bidens-move-ukraine-cluster-munitions-sparks-democratic-blowback-rcna93136
Sadly, here is the Daily Kos (liberal Dem blog) take on the cluster bombs:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/7/7/2179777/-Ukraine-Update-U-S-agrees-to-send-cluster-munitions-to-Ukraine
So much BS. So much distortion. So much gullible swallowing whole of war mongering propaganda. So much special pleading. So much, “I was an antiwar activist/pacifist, BUT…” Sickening. Revolting. Repulsive. Disgusting. Progs for Cluster Bombs!
They’ll back down. DC no longer recruits people with a sense of honor and decency – only ambition.
I hope you’re wrong but fear you’re right.
They have to save themselves for next week when Biden announced we’re sending white phosphorus. Or later, when we start sending napalm and nerve gas.
Nothing escalatory about getting us all used to banned weapons getting rolled out.
“Cluster munitions are illegal under international law,” Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., said in a statement announcing that she plans to introduce an amendment with Rep. Sara Jacobs, D-Calif., to the annual defense policy bill that would ban the sale of cluster munitions.”
The best we can hope for is they introduce the amendment to the defense policy bill and then vote for it. They did their duty for the history book records.
It’s OK. They will only kill ethnic Russians and obviously that’s in line with Zelensky’s plans to retake the eastern Oblasts.
No doubt at least some Ukrainians specifically want cluster munitions, but it’s pretty clear that US motivation for sending them is just this: It simply doesn’t have any more 155mm shells of other kinds to send.
There are lots of other weapons and munitions, and much other equipment, that the West isn’t able to supply, quickly, in sufficient quantities and that situation is not readily or speedily reversible. It’s virtually certain that much of the materiel destroyed in Ukraine’s current offensive won’t be replaced any time soon.
We should all probably be wondering and worrying about what the US and its European deputies will do if they find themselves unable to continue propping up the Ukrainian forces even to the extent that they have been so far.
Did NATO ever consider a negotiated surrender?
Biden wants to win the election, which means unconditional surrender by the Russians, the American method.
Well . . . I don’t think anyone who isn’t fully detached from reality thinks unconditional surrender by Russia is achievable. Maybe some of the most deluded neocons did, early on, but even they can’t maintain that delusion now.
What Biden and the Democrats need for next year’s election is not to be seen as losers. Probably, the most they can hope for is avoiding an unmistakable Russian military victory before November, 2024. What we all need to worry about more than anything else is that the US and its European client states will, in an effort to avoid the loser label, do something even dumber and more dangerous than they have so far, something that makes Russian leaders worry that they are in danger of a military defeat.
You’re right that the American fantasy is always unconditional surrender of the opponent, but that hasn’t happened in any significant conflict since 1945.
I agree with your points too. After 1945 they were the losers, but now they talk about it without using the word. Zelensky wants everything back, no concessions and the Americans want a regime change and a broken RF. The Ukraine is in ruins and Biden will get nothing from Russia. Only unconditional surrender would get them there and that is not possible, but they feel more powerful. But in DC they are all disconnected from reality.
And that is scary.
Yeah, all the Biden Admin thinks it has to do is not lose in the Ukraine before Nov 2024. Bush won his re election in 2004 with a botched occupation on his hands. It takes a while for the US public to get well and truly sick of a losing war. And that public will usually back an incumbent president through at least one election cycle, no better how badly the war is going. The Repubs did not pay any price for the Iraq war fiasco until 2006, and didn’t lose the presidency until 2008. All the more so when few to no American troops are dying.
Don’t worry though, because the Administration assures us that:
(1) they are going to sort the bombs “carefully,” and only send those with a low failure rate;
(2) the Ukraine has promised that it will only use the cluster weapons in a responsible way against purely military targets: and
(3) the Ukraine has also “given written assurances” that it will clean up the cluster bombs after the war is over….
Moreover, the Administration claims that:
(1) the Russians use cluster weapons with a much higher failure rate; and
(2) the Russians use them irresponsibly and against civilians.
Me, personally? I’m glad that’s all cleared up and there is nothing more to see here!
Ukrainian forces have been shelling Donetsk City with cluster munitions since 2014. The population has developed a procedure to deal with them: After a barrage, residents hustle to find undetonated bomblets and cover them with buckets, flower pots, etc. to identify them and warn people away until the bomb disposal folks can take care of them.
Not a foolproof system, of course. Bad things happen with some regularity.
The textbook example for a successful counter-offensive is the release of Stalingrad for which Zhukov and his team made sure that the offensive did not only have enough manpower, tanks, and cannon but also enough ammunition.
It has to be obvious that someone (or many) goofed during the preparations for the Ukrainian counter-offensive which should not have run out of ammunition so early into its unfolding. That offensive now looks like a va-banque gamble which went badly wrong which apparently forced President Biden to promise to send the cluster ammunition.
And did General Milley or else the “US intelligence community” not know that the Ukrainian forces did not have enough ammunition to sustain a protracted offensive?
The “counter-offensive” looks, and has always looked, entirely like propaganda of the “convince the rubes we’re trying to do something big and flashy so their government has an excuse to send us more stuff” variety.
Ukraine can’t win this war. But they can prevent the Russians from winning it either, by remaining on the strategic defensive until the Russians get tired of very expensively banging their heads against the wall. Everything else is for show.
Even assuming that’s true, can the Ukraine afford to stay on the defensive? The counter offensive, as you say, was a show for the rubes. Well, without that show, might not the rubes tire of the whole enterprize? Thereby depriving the US and NATO governments of the excuse to send ever more stuff?
In the near to midterm, it seems to me, the Russians have the advantage of logistics, numbers, and firepower. Perhaps, if this is to be a Seven Years War, the West could match or even outproduce the Russians. But, as George Marshall said, a “democracy can’t fight a Seven Years War.”
So far, lies and propaganda and the usual demonization of the “Other” have carried the freight for the war mongers, who dominate the politics and discourse in the USA and the West generally. But a long war, a defensive “stalemate,” with no more Ukrainian “victories,” even of the fake kind, much less an actual rollback of the Russians, might stretch that dominance to the breaking point. Moreover, the Russians are occupying a good deal of land, including Crimea, that the Ukrainians (and the US) claim is rightfully part of the Ukraine. Can they just afford to sit back and wait for the Russians to come to them, consistently with that claim? In WWI the Allies, particularly the French, felt the need to attack, even though attacks on the Western Front were very much like banging one’s head against the wall, because the Germans occupied a good deal of French territory.
The Russians obviously have the advantage of manpower. The problem for them is that manpower isn’t the force factor it used to be. You still need it, but you don’t need as much of it, as reflected in the casualty statistics for modern-power conflicts since Vietnam ended.
Those statistics are continually moving in the direction of minimal military casualties. Civilians/non-combatants have always been hurt the worst, but that ratio has become exceedingly lop-sided. That trend started with the movement of more military action into the air, and with advances in the capabilities of aircraft to deliver ordnance. Over the last 10-15 years, even manned aircraft have become increasingly obsolete versus better air defense and are largely being replaced with drones and missile strikes.
On everything else, the Russians have been outclassed since May of last year. At comparatively little cost to themselves, Ukraine’s supporting regimes can outmatch even the maximum conceivable Russian effort to manufacture and deliver arms, munitions and vehicles to their usage areas.
PART of that is situational and could change — the early Russian successes meant that the Ukrainians got to fall back onto their existing supply lines, while the Russians had to extend their own supply lines. That’s one reason why the Ukrainians would be wise to stay on the defensive, rather than really trying to take territory. Why stretch their own supply/logistics resources when they can let the Russians continue to fight at the furthest stretches of their own capabilities?
Your World War One example is indeed applicable, but let’s look at the differences:
Air power was in its infancy then. There was little aerial surveillance, no satellite coverage, very little wireless communication, and nothing resembling modern rocketry. There was long-range artillery, but targeting it at anything not large and stationary was difficult because most communications moved at the speed of courier (a job which a young Adolf Hitler won the Iron Cross for apparently doing both well and courageously).
Today, a satellite, drone, or manned aircraft can detect a convoy, send a signal, and with a push of a button a missile or drone swarm is on the way. The Russians have those facilities as well … but they also have fewer and longer roads and railways to send their men and materiel down, while the Ukrainians have shorter, redundant, and long-existing routes to choose from.
If either side in World War One had had the capabilities at their disposal that they have now, they wouldn’t have been doing mass infantry charges at well-defended positions. They’d have been making sure that their counterparts couldn’t get shells, bullets, rations, etc.
Then why would the Ukrainians need cluster bombs? Cluster bombs are for the losers, if that does not work the last chance is the first strike nuclear war solution.
It’s not that Ukraine needs cluster bombs. It’s that the US providers of cluster bombs want the US government’s inventory of cluster bombs drawn down so that they can sell the US government newer, more expensive stuff (after having made a profit on the cluster bombs).
The US government’s reason for keeping this war going really boils down to that. A whole lot of “defense” contractors want to go back to making bank like they did with Iraq and Afghanistan. They want their old stuff sent to Ukraine so that the US government spends more billions replacing it.
If cluster bombs are for the losers, then why have the Russian forces been using them for 17 months now?
If the Russians used cluster bombs, why does MSM not report it and put evidence of it on the table?
That is just not a plausible to believe.
I guess it depends on what you mean by “MSM. Is BBC “MSM?” How about Reuters?
Neither the US nor Russia has signed onto the cluster bomb ban treaty, and both regimes use them.
BBC reports the government narrative, Reuters included, like all the corporate MSM, they must provide real evidence, they lost their credibility a long time ago.
So you ASK for MSM sources, then whine that MSM sources are biased when you get what you ASKED for. Make up your mind.
I don’t know if the Russians did use them, but maybe they thought it is a good time to test their supply. If the dud% is high that is not good for the time after the war, it will be decades before all duds are found and the landmines.
Cluster bombs are stockpiled. There is no reason to think that reducing and replacing that stockpile is going to end up being more profitable than simply sending and replacing “regular” ammo would be. Again, the US is ADMITTING that the Ukraine is “out of ammunition.” If the US HAD more “regular” ammunition, it would simply send it, which would not only have the same effect on stockpiles (in terms of profitability for the MIC in replacing them), but would also avoid the moral condemnation that the Administration is now getting from many quarters, because it is sending cluster weapons.
And all of that is true regardless of whether Russia has been using cluster weapons, or not. And even if the Ukraine has already been using them, still, the moral onus that the Biden Administration is now facing would not exist if the USA was not now sending them.
Your thesis just doesn’t hold water.
Ukraine is most likely “out of ammunition” in two locations:
1) US propaganda mills; and
2) pro-Russian imaginations.
So, if the Americans are saying it, AND the Russians are saying it, it must not be true?!!? Nice epistemic closure there! Notice too that there basically are no other sources! Any souce I could cite to you you could dismiss as either American propaganda OR Russian imagination. Even the Ukranians saying so could be similarly dismissed!
And what do you have to back up your stance? What evidence do you have that the Ukraine has plenty of regular ammo, and that the USA and NATO have plenty more of it to send, but they are just making it up? Do you really think whatever marginal difference, if any, in profitablity for the MIC in making cluster bombs over regular bombs would prompt the Admin to make this highly controversial move?
Again and again, you just make no sense, and doggedly stick to your completely absurd claims, without a shred of backing. You are the first to demand proof from others, including for the proposition that the sky is blue, and yet you spout BS like the above with no more source than your own backside!
“So, if the Americans are saying it, AND the Russians are saying it, it must not be true?!!?”
Putting a question mark after something I didn’t say doesn’t magically change history to cause me to have said it.
That’s really not responsive. Leaving aside all your other distortions and inaccuracies and omissions, the fact remains that it is the Ukies that have to take back territory, according to their and their Western sponsors’ own rhetoric. But the Ukies and their sponsors in the USA are ADMITTING that the Ukies are out of ammo. And the USA has no more ammo to give. That’s WHY the USA is sending cluster bombs. Because it has no more “regular” shells to send. Biden and co. know that cluster bombs are controversial. That the progs and others in Congress won’t like sending them. Nor will the normally compliant lap dogs in Europe and the fake “human rights” groups. The sending of the cluster bombs anyway is a clear sign that, contrary to everything you say, the Ukraine, and its suppliers, are losing the logistical/manufacturing battle, again, at least in the short and medium term. And it is by no means clear that the Ukies, or their Western backers, can be or are willing to stick it out to get to the long term.
Before and during WWII, it took years for the USA to get on a war footing with its industries. But it had years. Now? By the time the USA turns it ploushares back into swords, the Ukrainians might well be defeated.
Your stance is really bizarre. Every indication is that the Ukies, not the Russians, are facing grave logistical, manpower, and ammunition problems. Not sure why you feel the need to cheerlead for the Ukies.
The reason why you’re not sure while I feel the need to “cheerlead for the Ukies” is that I am not doing, and have never done, that. So uncertainty as to why I might, against all past practice and every principle I support, suddenly start doing so is only natural.
I’m working with such facts as I have at my disposal to try and come to a realistic picture of the actualities of the war and the likelihoods of the outcomes. Any preferences I have are both irrelevant to that, and past-premised (I would have preferred the US to not have sponsored the 2014 coup, Ukraine to have recognized the Donbas secessions, etc.).
And yet you continually spout the nonsense about the Ukies having the advantage, when they and their sponsors admit that they are out of ammo. Sounds like cheerleading to me!
In other words, you have no idea what the word “cheerleading” means.
The people in Europe are causing trouble, they had enough. NATO is falling apart, they may not be around to help Biden win his elections. The governing coalition in Netherland broke apart, Macron and Scholz are on the out, the old parties are losing. The nations can’t deal with more refugees and Biden’s sanctions imposed on them. The pipeline sabotage is not forgotten. In the alliance they are enemies not friends. The Biden political thugs may think they are invincible, they will find out the hard way.
And Zelensky acts as if he can demand and get everything, he will use cluster bombs in his country if he gets them. What a scum bag that man is and he had a standing ovation in the American congress. How low they have fallen.
Still underestimating Russia. just a reminder Russia won WW II , not the US,UK, and FRANCE combined, Russia won
Again there are more than 30 NATO members supporting Ukraine, Ukraine had 18 month to win and they did not, they only sacrificed thousands of young lives for nothing. The country is in ruins and millions fled the country, and still the corrupt leadership does not have enough common sense to face reality and negotiate a peace settlement.
Zelensky is traveling he risks nothing by selling other young lives for cannonfodder. He is making a profit.
Cluster bomb’s purpose is to kill people. It doesn’t destroy any offensive or defensive system, it just lingers around and kills civilians and mostly children years and even decades later. A rational country doesn’t engage in these type of activities.
That’s not the intent of the cluster munitions in this case. They are not designed to linger.
The shells being sent to Ukraine are 155mm “dual-purpose improved cluster munitions.” Each shell releases dozens of bomblets that are supposed to spread over an area of up to several acres and detonate on impact. The bomblets have shaped charges and they are indeed supposed to damage or destroy equipment, including armor, as well as to kill and injure personnel.
In the real world, of course, a significant percentage of the bomblets don’t detonate on impact and may continue to be dangerous or deadly for quite a long time.
“Four people were injured in an explosion caused by an old aircraft bomb near a busy train station in the German city of Munich on December 1st, 2021. Old bombs are not uncommon finds in Germany and elsewhere, with hundreds found each year3.”
No one ever said that the Foreign Policy was rational or intelligent. It has always been motivated by power,profit and subjugation of other countries especially if the changes sought oppose the US and its rapacious Capitalist rulers.
There is nothing rational in Washington.
Biden never spoke of peace in relation to Ukraine as far as I know. He never made any effort to make peace, we know he STOPPED diplomatic negotiations for peace.
Are there any links of a coherent Biden policy speech in which he even mentions peace and what he could do?
I am a Senior citizen and never in my life can I recall even a warmonger not at least claiming wanting peace.
All the demented Biden knows is to win the war at others expense because he wants to be reelected. Zelensky sending Ukrainians to be slaughtered does not even touch Biden. God forbid.
What a fun game Biden is playing now! How evil can we be and still maintain a paper thin moral pretext that we’re doing this for the Ukrainian people?
How awful and blatant can we be about showing no concern for killing civilians, giving literal Nazis banned weapons systems and still keep the citizens at home clapping like seals for more “sovereignty “?
The whole cabal of leadership in the MADHOUSE in Washington including Congress are war criminals, they are monsters without a conscience. In what way is their murderous instinct less than Hitler’s?
Biden seemed to imply that we are running low on 155mm shells.
Not what I was expecting.