The head of Russia’s Wagner private military firm, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has claimed to have captured a military facility in the Russian city of Rostov, after the mercenary chief accused government forces of attacking his fighters in Ukraine. The Kremlin has denied the allegations, instead labeling the move an “armed insurrection.”
In a video shared on Prigozhin’s personal Telegram channel early on Saturday morning, he declared that his troops had taken Russia’s Southern Military District headquarters in Rostov, insisting there were “no problems” and that the base was “operating normally.”
“All that’s being done is we are taking control to ensure assault aviation does not conduct strikes on us, and instead on Ukrainians,” he said. “Military objects in Rostov are under control, including the airfield. Planes that leave for battle [in Ukraine] are leaving nominally.”
On Friday, Prigozhin claimed a Russian “missile attack” on a Wagner camp had left “many victims,” sharing footage purporting to depict the aftermath of the strike. While the video appears to show the body of one dead soldier and multiple small fires in a wooded area, it includes little direct evidence of an attack.
In another post, the Wagner head stated: “There are 25,000 of us and we are going to figure out why chaos is happening in the country,” suggesting he would advance on Rostov, a major city in Russia’s southwest. He argued his actions did not amount to a “military coup,” instead describing the move as a “march for justice.”
Prigozhin has led an increasingly public war of words with the Russian government and military, repeatedly accusing officials of declining to supply the ammunition and gear needed to capture the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut (known as Artyomovsk in Russia). The town finally fell in May, after months of brutal fighting.
Russian authorities have rejected Prigozhin’s charges outright, with the Defense Ministry stating they “do not correspond with reality” while deeming his claims an “informational provocation.” On Saturday, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia’s prosecutor general, Igor Krasnov, had launched criminal proceedings against Prigozhin for an “attempt to organize an armed insurrection.”
In a televised address, President Vladimir Putin later accused Prigozhin of a “betrayal of his country and people,” vowing to “react harshly” to the uprising.
“Everything that weakens Russia should be thrown aside,” the leader said, adding that the military and police had received the “necessary orders” to deal with the “rebels.”
The Defense Ministry also pleaded with Wagner troops to abandon “Prigozhin’s criminal gamble,” claiming that some mercs had “already understood their mistake” and asked to return to their deployment areas. It added that fighters were “tricked” into taking part in the rebellion, but went on to “guarantee everyone’s safety.”
Russian security forces have stepped up their presence in several regions, with officials in Moscow, Rostov, St. Petersburg, Bryansk, Kursk, Tver, Voronezh and Lipetsk reporting increased security measures. In the capital, the National Antiterrorist Committee announced a “counter-terrorist operation regime” to prevent potential attacks, while some major roads and highways were closed to traffic.
As part of “counter-terrorist operations” around Voronezh, the region’s governor said the military was carrying out the “necessary operational and combat measures,” but did not elaborate.
Several unconfirmed videos purporting to show columns of Wagner military vehicles have circulated on social media, with one clip even alleged to capture a firefight between Russian troops and Wagner forces. The footage could not be verified, but local officials in Voronezh earlier observed that a “convoy of military equipment” was seen on the M4 highway, which links Rostov to Moscow. Government troops, including Russia’s national guard, were also said to be out in force across multiple cities, with some videos showing tanks and armored personnel carriers in the streets.
Will Porter is the assistant news editor of the Libertarian Institute and a staff writer at RT. He co-hosts Conflicts of Interest along with Kyle Anzalone and Connor Freeman.
Nah, this is just a western media hype. West MSM just fell for the well choreographed and staged beef between Prigozhin and the Kremlin, part of the surgically planned SMO. In reality, is just Putin creating an excuse to pull out of Ukraine. Lol.
If this is a stealth troll, it’s brilliant. If not….
Not a troll. I openly support Ukraine but in a realistic way.
Don Julio, AKA, Don Bacon, Lemone Aloaca and who knows what other pseudonyms is always ready to say something or anything.
For the last time, I’m still not Don. Either Don.
And I actually disagree with him on this one and believe this is a legit coup attempt.
For a long time (minutes, even) I thought this was a psyop on Prigozhin’s part, although Putin’s address and the position of Wagner forces in Rostov and reported clashes on the highways between Wagner and MOD forces have changed my mind. It does appear to be an insurgency, but against Putin? Or Shoigu/MOD? The latter can’t possibly succeed without Putin wanting it to happen and the former, simply won’t. There’s no popular will backing Prigozhin, just some mercenary forces.
Reports from the ground (Twitter) are saying that troops in Moscow are siding with Prigozhin. Take that as you will.
If the Russian military sides with Wagner, game over.
NOT going to happen.
Are you sure?
It’s already falling apart. Most commanders and troops, if they make statements at all, are supportive of Putin. Sure that would be expected, but if this were anything other than a small uprising, you’d hear nothing of the sort.
I’m sorry, but I think you’re waaaaay off base here.
Time will tell.
Whoops, time did tell: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-blasts-wagner-treason-betrayal-clashes-erupt-southern-russia
“Belarusian president held talks with Prigozhin today. Lukashenko says that Prigozhin has agreed to ‘stop the movement of armed persons on the territory of Russia and to take further steps to deescalate.'”
Also, Belarus has already supposedly helped negotiate a deal with Wagner. Still awaiting confirmation.
Telegram channel Slavyangrad is already reporting (some) Wagner troops are saying the coup was a surprise to them, they thought they were being positioned for antiterrorist actions. So everything must be taken with a grain of salt.
Edited to add “(some)”.
Yeah, a lot of swirl for sure. But some of these scenes on Twitter are pretty damning.
It looks like a lot is still hanging in the balance with respect to whether significant regular army components side with Wagner. At least some supposedly have.
If Prigozhin is actually pro-Putin and is able to put Shoigu et al. to flight, it will give Putin an out with Ukraine — “we were stabbed in the back by incompetent/corrupt military leadership; the failure was not on the part of the people or the troops, and we can withdraw from this thing with our dignity intact.”
“At least some supposedly have.”
Supposed by whom? Who says?
“If Prigozhin is actually pro-Putin and is able to put Shoigu et al. to flight . . .”
No one not a victim of Western propaganda thinks that’s a realistic possibility.
“. . . it will give Putin an out with Ukraine . . .”
Yeah, and there’s so much credible evidence that Putin wants “an out with Ukraine.” 🙄
Unlike many people, I don’t think Putin is an idiot.
If Putin is not an idiot, then he wants “an out with Ukraine.”
An “out” with Ukraine will not remove the enemy forces from Europe or the main threat from the Anglo-American empire.
Neither will anything else short of global nuclear holocaust.
The Russian empire has the choice of:
1. Living with exactly the same threat it’s lived with for the last 80 years as both it and the Anglo-American empire move into the final years of their declines; or
2. Suicide.
The launch of SMO already determined that Russians are done tolerating and negotiating. They will clean up and secure Ukraine one way or another.
Now the question is how quickly will the Anglo-American empire will commit suicide.
The launch of the war determined that Russia no longer has the option of “tolerating” or “negotiating.”
Its inadvertently demonstrated inability to successfully project conventional military force against any opponent more numerous or well-armed than the Almaty police department leaves it at the kids’ table, whining that its portion of mashed potatoes is smaller than Bobby’s over there.
You need to calm down and accept reality. Kremlin cleaned up and secured Syria. Well, almost. There is still some Pentagon filth left but Assad isn’t going anywhere.
Ukraine clean op was planned since 2014.
Kremlin sent some troops into Syria to make sure its military bases weren’t compromised and to shore up Assad. Whoop de doo.
The last substantial test of Russian ability to project military force was Georgia, and before that Chechnya.
Since then, things have obviously gone south in a big way, probably due to budgeted funds for manpower, training, arms, ammunition, supply, and transport largely making their way into oligarchs’ pockets instead.
The Russian empire had a pretty good long run. Now that run has turned into a race to see whether it or the US empire disintegrates completely first.
Kremlin sent some troops into Syria to make sure its military bases weren’t compromised and to shore up Assad. Whoop de doo.
The last substantial test of Russian ability to project military force was Georgia, and before that Chechnya.
Since then, things have obviously gone south in a big way, probably due to budgeted funds for manpower, training, arms, ammunition, supply, and transport largely making their way into oligarchs’ pockets instead.
The Russian empire had a pretty good long run. Now that run has turned into a race to see whether it or the US empire disintegrates completely first.
Russian military isn’t built for “projecting” military force. It is built for fighting actual wars. That’s why they don’t need a fleet of aircraft carriers. The floating airfields your empire have are designed to “project military power” or basically terrorize countries who are incapable of defending themselves.
I know that you are scared because you know your pathetic terrorist forces are no match for a real military. You know that you will not be able to hide behind Europeans like last time. This time it will be complete annihilation and you know this little “Captain America” bravado will not save you.
I’m not scared, nor do I have any terrorist forces, nor am I any fonder of the US empire than I am of the Russian empire. All criminal terror gangs look the same to me.
Right, right. That’s why your face gets red when I mention cleaning up Pentagon filth in Syria or Ukraine. You’re just so completely impartial. Hurah, eh?
You can’t even see my face, dumbass. If any US troops are killed in Syria or Ukraine, I’ll shed no tears. They don’t belong there.
LOL
Must be jack and coke then.
and they aren’t US troops.
With all due respect, I don’t see Shoigu being replaced. Putin and Shoigu have reasons for conducting the SMO like they have, and if it turns into a CTO {counterterrorism operation) , so much the better for their security.
If Putin compromises with those hard liners, it brings closer the worst outcomes.
He may not have a choice. His tolerance and forgiveness of various infractions is seriously hurting him politically. He will need to seriously hurt the Anglo-American empire. Something like sinking one of them aircraft carriers or bombing Pentagon base in Syria will solve internal disputes.
A limited retaliatory strike would solve nothing and provoke a wider conflict within hours. Russia acting as a vindictive predator mimicking the US and NATO patterns of brazenly psychopathic behaviour would be out of character and out of the question.
There is much that is unknown regarding this situation. Three immediate thoughts: 1) violent regime changes (if that is what is being attempted) are inherently dangerous, especially that of a nuclear power. So no one should be looking at this as a hoorah moment. 2) If in fact Putin is deposed (and the world lives through it) it is highly likely that his successor would prosecute the Ukrainian war more vigorously. Most of the criticism of Putin has been from his right flank, so people should be careful what they wish for. 3) This is exactly the moment the US/NATO should back off and seek a negotiated settlement. In the name of global peace give Putin an offramp, it is highly likely he would take it.
1). If it means the end of the Ukrainian War, then it is a hoorah moment.
2). I completely disagree, and I don’t think you’ve thought that point through fully.
3). I agree with this, but I am betting they’re going to try and snag Edward Snowden.
What does Snowden have to do with anything?
It was kind of a joke.
Sorry, missed the /sarc tag.
Freakin’ stop! This is NOT the time to negotiate. This is the time to continue the offensive a let the Russians kill each other in Moscow
Nazi Criminals killing other Nazi criminals. While Ukraine eats popcorn.
What a Win win for everyone.
Yes, Ukraine will be safe. Keep thinking that.
Nothing to negotiate when armed unelected insurrection comes for the elected sitting government. Good to see antiwar.c-m get going on weekends when big things hit.
Sure. That won’t make the possibility of “tactical” nukes being used greater? To think that this is a good thing for Ukraine is misguided to say the least.
How can it not be a good thing for Ukraine? Putin deposed would be fantastic!
The most obvious answer is that his successor could be more of a hardliner than Putin.
It is ALWAYS a good time for peace.
I’ll embrace it when Putin is gone. He’s already left Moscow.
Oh the new pro Putin line.
“His replacement may be worse so let’s let him have whatever he wants. “.
Unless any successor would want to turn Russia into another Afghanistan, they will have to pull back on the throttle.
Oh, the new disregard the possibility that there are more hardliners in Russia than Putin line. But throw in that any hardliner will only turn Russia into another Afghanistan and that will preclude any hardliner from pushing the throttle to full bore. Right?
The “pro-Putin” line must occupy a keyboard shortcut on your computer because you trot it out at every opportunity. Even a cursory view of everything I have written on the subject shows that I have condemned Russia’s invasion as a crime against humanity, as all state-to-state wars are (even one’s prosecuted by your US empire). Ad hominem is a major sign of the insecurity you must feel toward your position.
What you ignore is that the no Ukraine in NATO position was a redline across the entire Russian political establishment, not simply Putin on down to his right. Not even Yeltsin, fresh from downing a demijohn of vodka, would have agreed to this. Which is why the analogy to Afghanistan is so off base. This is not Afghanistan to them, or Vietnam to the US, this is much more akin to Cuba 1962.
At this point I’m curious, how far are you willing to go, and how much are you willing to risk stop Russia from neutralizing Ukraine? I think readers would like your (non-ad hominem) perspective.
1. Don’t be afraid of regime change. The world already survived the coup in Pakistan. It could happen in Russia.
2. Russia lost the war in Ukraine over a year ago. This is a stage that imperial powers go through when they lose asymmetric wars of national resistance. The US went through it with the Chinese revolution and the Vietnam debacle. The politicians and the military leaders turn on each other and try to blame others for the disaster unfolding but they never accept the fact that the disaster is a result of the war. Some right wingers are pragmatists. Nixon escalated but ultimately ended the war in Vietnam. DeGaulle, the rightist military strongman ended the war in Algeria. Something similar may happen to save Russia from Putin’s folly.
3. This is a war between Ukraine and Russia. The US/NATO is supporting Ukraine, but they do not control Ukraine. This is the moment Ukraine should double down on their demand for Russia to leave Ukraine completely. I hope the Ukrainians are willing to compromise on Crimea. If they are not, then the loss of Crimea will be part of Putin’s legacy from his ignominious war.
“I hope the Ukrainians are willing to compromise on Crimea. If they are not, then the loss of Crimea will be part of Putin’s legacy from his ignominious war.”
Then why do you hope the Ukrainians are willing to compromise on Crimea? Mabe even you believe that Crimea is a real red line for Russia and they won’t back away without WW3 happening.
No way Russia is going to go nuclear over Crimea.
They know that will just mean the destruction of every, major, Russian city.
Even if the Russian leader went nuts and tried to. The Russian generals would never let him (same with Biden, btw).
But they might go full conventional over it.
Russia will go to war over Crimea.
I know.
As I have said numerous times (in essence).
To Russia (and most Crimeans)…Crimea IS Russia.
It’s extraordinarily unlikely that Russia would need to go nuclear over Crimea. While the Russian regular army turned out to be a third-rate military force on the offensive in a large-scale maneuver scenario, the constrained front for any land assault on the peninsula makes it quite defensible.
Crimea’s just not “on the table.”
I question whether Russia is third rate. They took on a country who is being endlessly supplied with weapons from NATO.
People claim third rate based on their projections yet Russia withstood an economic assault and made gains on a Western supported military.
The US struggled against far less competition.
Now is a good time to make peace and the US would do well to pursue it.
I applaud and share your position but unfortunately it’s unrealistic today.
Peace negotiations would have been possible 9 years ago or anywhere with 8 years span since the imperial occupation of Ukraine.
Today simple dialog is impossible. There isn’t only total lack of trust, it’s total contempt. Even if the imperial regime somehow retreats from psychotic russophobia, remove all support from puppet regime in Kiev, remove all their military from Ukraine and end occupation of surrounding European states on the border of Russian Federation, they will still need to work to earn back the just basic respect.
Nothing is impossible.
‘Extraordinarily unlikely’?
If NATO provides sufficient, sophisticated firepower? And Russia is worn down enough? Of course Crimea could be successfully invaded.
In tanks alone?
At it’s present loss rate? Russia will be practically out of decent tanks within a few years.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-is-running-out-of-tanks-as-ukraine-pushes-back-putins-forces/ar-AA1cHfAA
Yet, NATO has over 3,600 Abrams and 2,000+ Leopard 2’s sitting in storage. Most of them far superior to whatever the Russians have sitting in their tank farms.
And most of Crimea – especially the north/central – is Russian steppe. Perfect for massed armored operations and lousy for defense.
Once NATO-backed Ukraine forces get passed Krasnoperekopsk.
It’s relatively wide open.
Also, there is but one land link from Russia to Crimea. The Kerch Strait Bridge. It would be easy to take it out and thus make Russian reinforcements incredibly difficult to get through in large quantities.
If NATO wants to help Ukraine take back Crimea badly enough?
Than they WOULD take back the Crimea.
Though it would take a while to wear down Russian reserves.
Though I doubt NATO would be willing to help to that extent.
You don’t agree?
So be it.
So we are done here.
Good day.
It doesn’t matter what “most of Crimea” is like for maneuver warfare, since invading forces would have to get there first.
Ukraine is not noted for its amphibious assault capabilities or its naval superiority in the Black Sea. Getting to any maneuver warfare scenarios would first require a land approach over narrow known fronts that are almost certainly already, and if not quickly could be, covered by well-registered artillery and screened by mine fields.
And by the time the Ukrainians could plausibly be in any position to make such an attack, the Russians would have already withdrawn to similarly defensible positions elsewhere, allowing them to bring what resources the do have specifically to bear on that single situation as needed.
Militarily, the idea of a Ukrainian assault on Crimea is what I seem to recall eminent military theorist Carl von Clausewitz describing as “fucking stupid.”
I did not read what you typed.
But by the length (with no links) – I assume it was you carrying on with your argument.
Using theories and guesses against my (largely) facts and data.
I figured you were too close-minded to consider the possibilities.
Looks like I was right.
Have a nice day.
If you’re not going to read something, why bother to reply?
American hawks in the same position as Russia is with Ukraine would argue there’s a decent chance Russia could use a tactical nuke or two without triggering a full scale exchange. If wrong, no one would be alive for the recriminations and I told you so’s at least.
Sorry, but I don’t think even Putin is that crazy. Nor his top generals.
What could it possibly gain?
Blowing a temporary hole in the Ukrainian lines? At the cost of GIGANTIC international condemnation and further sanctions.
And despite what the MSM/Russian bots say. Russia’s economy HAS been hurt badly by the war/sanctions.
Their economy is in a depression and their GDP has dropped 12.5% since the war began.
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth-annual
The US GDP dropped ‘only’ 4.7% during the ‘Great Recession’.
https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great-recession-of-200709
Plus, that assumes that NATO does nothing in retaliation.
And how could they not?
They cannot just let Russia blow up nukes in Ukraine whenever they feel like it.
NATO will HAVE to respond in kind.
Thus, Russia gains nothing.
Russia know it.
NATO knows it.
Oh, and you nailed the point there… “Russia gains nothing”. That’s the whole point of this war for the West, ensuring Russian gains nothing no matter what it costs us, and everyone else.
Right, hopefully Putin is a lot less crazy than our hawks. Yet our hawks are so crazy, that they also want to push their luck by putting Russia in a corner where using a small nuke or two would start to seem like a reasonable choice. Like American hawks would have done months ago, ever escalating in the hope that the villified enemy will deescalate when we would not.
I don’t believe Russia will fight WWIII over Crimea. But history has shown that Putin style revanchism leads inevitably to world war. There is a risk in stopping Putin’s revanchism. But the greater risk is letting his insatiable revanchism go unchecked. Putin is supporting six breakaway states in former Soviet republics and supporting and encouraging two other secessionist movements in Kazakastan. Putin is looking to set back the strategic balance in Europe to pre-1997. Russia has been at war every year of Putin’s reign. It has to stop. There is a risk he might go nuclear. But there is a greater risk of letting his revanchist ambitions go unchecked.
Putin can’t accept Russia’s loss in Ukraine.
I doubt Prizoghin can succeed, but the Russian military is beginning to break down. I can’t tell how long it will take for Russia to get a leadership pragmatic enough to end the war. But the war against Ukraine was a mistake that is now coming back to haunt Putin.
You still haven’t said why you hope Ukraine will compromise on Crimea. If it isn’t to avoid war, why wouldn’t you want Ukraine to be whole again?
Crimea has s separate history from Ukraine and Russia. The indigenous Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed by Stalin in 1944. The majority of Crimean today are descendants of Russian settlers from the imperial and Soviet eras. Crimea today is more Russian culturally than any other part of Ukraine. I suspect a lot of Crimeans would prefer to be part of Russia. If they are forced to be part of Ukraine against their will, there could be problems. On the other hand, Putin’s seizure of Crimea by force was illegal and an act of war that should not be rewarded. So the question of Crimea is something I hope the Ukrainians are open to negotiating when the war ends and that the preferences of the Crimean residents and the exiled Tatars are both taken into account..
I hate to bring you the bad news but WW3 is already under way. Anglo-American empire already crossed all red lines.
“”The US/NATO is supporting Ukraine, but they do not control Ukraine.””
don’t they? doesn’t US/NATO’s supplying of weapons and moneys to Ukraine amount to ‘controlling’?
and i’ll bet that US/NATO would love to control Crimea.
and i’ll further bet that will never happen.
You are confusing the term ‘control’ with ‘influence’.
If NATO told Zelenskyy to do something that the vast majority of Ukrainian’s disagreed with strongly? And they threatened to boot him out of office if he did it?
There is no way he would do it.
NATO has a large ‘influence’.
But not ‘control’ over Ukraine.
i did not confuse anything – that’s why i used the word “doesn’t” and posed it as a question
I think you made an assumption. But phrased it as a question to give yourself an ‘out’.
No offense intended.
Either way…NATO does not control Ukraine.
They have no legal power over her people or her government.
They have influence…not control.
Good day.
Why are you attempting to reason with that moron?
The idiots like him actually believe that there was no regime change in Kiev or civil war in Ukraine. They believe anything that the mainstream propaganda is telling them no matter how ridiculous it is.
Good, common sense points, imo.
Russia had one chance to take out Ukraine…quickly before NATO could offer support.
But they blew that/were not strong enough.
And now they are stuck in a quagmire.
Ukraine has gained more territory than Russia since last September 6.
And the NATO weapons being delivered are getting more and more sophisticated (Leopard 2A6’s/Abrams/F-16’s).
Whilst Russia is having to refurbish older ones from storage.
When will people/idiotic MSM realize the ‘well duh’, obvious fact?
Russia CANNOT beat Ukraine as long as the latter is fully backed by NATO.
The only thing that Putin can hope for is stalemate long enough that NATO voters will grow tired of the whole thing. And negotiate a peace treaty that allows him to hold onto the Donbas and Crimea.
Actually, Russia never had a chance to win. If Russia takes out the *Ukrainian army they will be like Israel occupying Lebanon fo eighteen years before leaving in defeat. This is an asymmetric war of national resistance that is based on hearts and minds, not force of arms or dollars and cents. At this point what happens on the battlefield doesn’t matter in the long run.
The only way Russia could have won was if they were liberators freeing Ukrainians from a vicious Nazi regime, like Putin pretended. But the truth is Ukrainians, including many ethnic Russian Ukrainians, see the Russians as hostile invaders trying to reassert Russian/Soviet imperial rule over Ukraine.
In an asymmetric war of national resistance the invader needs to (i) conquer territory (ie., defeat the Ukrainian army) , (ii) occupy the territory (i.e., defeat the resistance) and (iii) pacify the occupied territory (i.e., establish a stable civil administration).
For the Ukrainians to win, they have only to survive and continue to resist. The Ukrainian counteroffensive succeeded because the Ukrainians were able to mount a military operation that makes it impossible for Russia to pacify the occupied territory. It doesn’t matter who sabotaged the Kakhovka dam that devastated Kherson oblast. The destruction of the Dam, and the destruction of the bridge to Crimea yesterday proved that Russia has been unable to establish peaceful civil society in the territory it occupies. The Russian defenses of their perimeter may be impregnable, but the Ukrainian army does not need to break through the Russian defenses in order to destabilize Russian rule in the occupied territory.
16 months ago I expected Russia to take Kiev in a week or two and to destroy the Ukrainian military by April 2022. But even if Russia had done that, they would bean occupying power in hostile territory until dissension in the army, in the Russian population or among the oligarchs would coalesce into a determination to end the war by withdrawing.
Putin is a classical Russian chauvinist who truly believes that the Ukrainians and the Russians are one people. But he invaded a sovereign country whose people are determined to resist. The Russians never had a chance.
US/NATO support plus the determination and resolve of the Ukrainian people has enabled the Ukrainian army to stay in the field. But even it the US and NATO end material support and the Ukrainian army is driven underground, the resistance will be fatal to the Russian invasion. It would just take a very long time for the Ukrainian resistance to engender a political resistance inside Russia, but the end result is inevitable.
The Chinese understand all of this and they may intervene in Russia behind the scenes. The Chinese see Russia as an important strategic ally. But to the Chinese, Putin is expendable and he may have become a liability to the Chinese.
“The only thing that Putin can hope for is stalemate long enough that NATO voters will grow tired of the whole thing. And negotiate a peace treaty that allows him to hold onto the Donbas and Crimea.”
He doesn’t need a peace treaty. If the Russian forces can actually secure the Donbas along a defensible line of control, they can just declare a unilateral ceasefire and go back to “frozen conflict,” treaty or no treaty.
Again with this ridiculous fantasy… Why would Russians want a “frozen conflict” with an existential enemy when they have all the necessary means to annihilate it? Is this your way of coping or do you really believe Anglo-American empire can win a war against Russia? There will no compromise no matter what Anglo-American imperial pests say or do. There is no way out Ukrainian debacle. Kremlin will continue to press until there is a regime change or a complete collapse of Anglo-American empire.
Indeed, Ukraine at this point is a core Russian interest. Russia doesn’t have the military strength to seize all of it yet, but the Ukraine regime is hemorrhaging money. This scheme to bleed Russia is instead bleeding NATO of its economic and political strength, and it is only getting worse for the west. Certainly it only is getting worse for the world, and eventually the world will find a way to stop this American aggression.
You’re right. It is a ridiculous fantasy that Russians have the necessary means to annihilate their supposed “existential enemy.”
Do you really believe either declining empire could “win” a war against the other?
You keep blathering on about how Russia can defend ‘such and such’, forever more. No matter what NATO (through Ukraine) throws at them.
1) Russia could not even come close to conquering weakened Ukraine before NATO supplies arrived.
2) Their economy has contracted 12.5% since the war began (thus – in a depression).
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth-annual
3) NATO can EASILY out build Russia if they so choose. Just the top six, NATO GDP nations dwarf Russia’s GDP by over TWENTY times! https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-by-country/
4) Plus, they have in storage, FAR more (and far superior) military equipment than Russia has.
5) At it’s present loss rate? Russia will run out of many quality, major weapons systems in a few years.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-is-running-out-of-tanks-as-ukraine-pushes-back-putins-forces/ar-AA1cHfAA
Yet you ignore ALL that. And believe your grade school ‘Russia is impregnable’ speech.
Either post a link to a respected, unbiased site that provides factual proof that Russia can withstand forever and ever – a full, NATO-backed Ukrainian attack?
Or I will read nothing you say on this. I will only follow a link.
Hint – no such link probably exists.
Sometimes you make good points. Which almost make up for the fact that you an excremental mod who clearly is a troll. And who deletes peoples posts without even telling them why you did it. Even when they ask you why.
However, this simplistic notion of yours is not one of your good points.
Bye now.
“[You delete] people posts without even telling them why you did it. Even when they ask you.”
Liar.
Thomas is actually one of the more balanced regular posters here. I don’t always agree with him, but he’s always been fair … at least, he seems to piss off everyone equally, which is usually a good sign!
He does make good points sometimes.
And he sometimes – though not in this discussion that I have seen – posts links. A darn rare thing.
And yes, he seems to not favor one side – which is a very good thing.
But he has deleted several of my posts (though he claims it’s only one). Yet, refused to tell me even why he did. So how the ‘f’ am I supposed to know what rules I broke if the local cop tickets me without telling me the charge?
And try and find the posting rules of this place. I asked him. He told me something vague. So I still do not know them.
Plus, he throws ad hominem’s around like candy. That is Troll 101.
A good mod should be seen and not heard.
And he/she should NEVER troll. Respond to insults – sure. But not ‘stir up excrement’.
If he was just a poster?
I would agree.
He is definitely better than most.
But throw in the fact he is a mod who trolls?
That puts him in the red in my book.
“Yet you ignore ALL that. ”
Not only do I not “ignore ALL that,” most of it is stuff I’ve been saying over and over to people who believe that Russia can “win” a war with Ukraine that extends to e.g. regime change, holding Kherson/Zaporzhia, etc.
The only exception there is the “weapons in storage” claim, which I’ve not pretended to any great knowledge of (and which no one without high security clearances and need to know in the respective regimes can claim real knowledge of in any case). I do suspect that the Russians wouldn’t be breaking out 1950s-era tanks if their production could keep up with … shrinkage … of the more modern models.
But none of those change the tactical facts of an attempt to take Crimea. That would be essentially Bakhmut times a thousand, with the Russians having the advantage of dug-in defense that the Ukrainians had at Bakhmut.
A “full, NATO-backed Ukrainian attack” could succeed in a lot of places — places without narrow fronts and mine/obstacle channelized approaches well-covered by registered artillery and and defended by troops who’ve had years to dig in.
Crimea has narrow fronts of approach that can easily be mined and obstructed, and it’s unlikely that there’s a single road junction or noticeable terrain feature that isn’t registered down to the square meter for artillery placement.
Not only would such an attack not succeed, no sane general would even consider making it.
Blah blah blah.
Read none of that.
Saw no link and passed.
I told you…either post link(s) to respected, UNBIASED sources that back up your ridiculous theory that Russia could FOREVER stand up to whatever NATO could throw at them via Ukraine.
Or I will ignore your ‘theories’ on the subject’.
I state/post links to data and facts.
Yet you (on this subject) just spew guesses and theories from a (at least) relatively-intelligent, chat forum moderator with a huge ego.
Hardly compelling.
I thought you were a better debater than this.
I guess I was mistaken.
Oh.
And if you insist on trolling.
Please give the mod duties to someone else.
They are a conflict of interest.
Though I doubt your ego wants to give up the tiny amount of ‘power’ you gain from modding this place.
Good day.
You’re free to ignore anything you like.
But this isn’t an airport. Your departure from a discussion need not be announced.
The reason I’m the moderator here is that nobody else wanted the job, and comments were going to be shut down if i didn’t take it. There’s no “conflict of interest” involved.
Col McGregor has said that Putin was reluctant to kill Ukrainians if he didn’t have to. So he was restricted from
full scale warfare. Of course, its a 2 edged sword. Is it better
to end it quickly or drag it out as they have done?
Right. Putin did not go into Ukraine with “Shock and Awe” American style. He had compassion for the Ukrainian people, many of whom were sympathetic to Russia’s case and are intermarried with ethinic Russians. It may have been a mistake militarily, but it does show that Putin has compassion for innocent people, unlike the reprobate in the White House.
I wouldn’t say Putin is a heartless monster but clean up op in Ukraine isn’t only about liberating Ukraine from imperial occupation. It is about destroying the Anglo-American empire. A quick military strike was possible back in 2014. All he had to do is launch few Kalibr missiles at US and English embassies in Kiev. The coup would have been over, Ukraine would have been safe. But, and this is key, the Anglo-American parasites would continue to cause trouble in Eurasia.
What Kremlin is doing is a more permanent solution to imperial infection in Europe.
No, “the coup” wouldn’t’ve been over, and Ukraine’s territory would’ve been used as a platform for a full-scale confrontation between The Russian Federation and NATO. You really are a mentally deranged fool, if not paid agent provocateur, if you think that killing British and American diplomats in Kyiv would not provoke AT LEAST a symmetrical response against Russian diplomatic missions all over the globe by the usual suspects.
It doesn’t even occur to you that speculating about the past in the most unintelligent manner possible or even imaginable, reflects poorly on the people you claim to support. You are beyond help or cure. Period.
Isn’t an attack on a foreign embassy considered an act of war against that country? If Putin had launched Kalibr missiles at U.S. and English embassies in Kiev, he would have fallen into their trap of invoking Article V of NATO, where an attack on one NATO nation is an attack on all, and all hell would have broken loose. Lindsey Graham and Richard Blumenthal are trying to set this up with their bill before Congress if the nuclear power plant in Zaporizhzhia gets blown up. Of course Russia will be blamed with no investigation.
I don’t think so. First, these cowards only talk about collective response but North American Terrorist Occupation is meaningless as a military body. It was created by Anglo-American cowards so they could hide behind their vassals in Europe. Both Kremlin and Beijing don’t seem to understand this cowardly nature of imperial parasites. These vultures will never attack a capable opponent.
Second, even if by some miracle they would have went full scale, it could have been mediated and diffused by diplomatic channels.
Hahaha. You Putin-files are really trying to convince yourselves of all your own BS!
End it quickly?
And what EXACTLY are these weapons systems that Putin is holding back from using in Ukraine?
Of Russia’s pre-war, active strength tank force?
They have lost over 55% of their T-72’s.
They have – in essence – lost ALL of their T-80’s (and are forced to use refurbished ones).
And they have lost roughly 20% of their T-90 force. But they only had about 600 of those pre-war. Including those in storage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
Outside of refurbishing old tanks from storage?
Russia does not have much (of quality) in reserve to ‘throw at’ Ukraine.
And NATO has over 3,600 Abrams and over 2,000 Leopard 2 tanks in storage alone.
And these are far superior to most of the Russian tanks sitting in tank farms.
To my knowledge, there is no ‘magic bullet(s)’ that Russia is holding back that could magically turn the tide if ‘they would just commit them’.
Unless you are talking about human wave attacks of draftees.
But I HIGHLY doubt most Russians would go for that.
Tanks in storage where?
What models?
How long to spin them up?
How long to get them to the front?
Who is going to crew them?
The quick finish would have been at the very beginning by capturing Kiev. Maybe not possible even then.
We didn’t know when the war began that the West used the time when they were negotiating the Minsk accords that they then ignored
to arm Ukraine and fortify. See Merkels statement on that.
The West set up this proxy war and are going for broke..
No matter how many Ukrrainians die.
The Ukranians have decided to fight. The US is providing them with the weapons to execute the war and defeat Russia. Is it hard for you tankies to understand the basics?
The US is providing weapons as long as they don’t think the weapons will result in a direct war with Russia. In other words, not enough to win. It’s hard for you to understand that even though the US has flat ass said as much.
It’s semi-amazing how many tinfoil-types simply refuse to believe this staggeringly, obvious fact.
And there are lots of other sources. Just search for them.
Now answer my question, please.
What are these vast numbers of weapons systems that Russia is holding back that they could end the war ‘quickly’ with?
Because I am not seeing them.
Because they’re not using them. You already doubted they would ever use “tactical” nukes, so you knew about them.
Oryx is unreliable.
And your link to unbiased, factual proof of this is…?
Without it?
Your point means nothing to me,
No guarantees but many critics of Putin say that he hasn’t prosecuted the war enough. Listening to some of the comments from prominent Russians it’s unlikly that a successor would back down and seek a settlement that would involve giving up Crimea, if anything an escalation would probably take place inside and out.
Yes, there are many hardliners who are unhappy with Putin’s soft approach and believe Russia need escalate the war with the Anglo-American empire. I don’t see this as beneficial to neolibercons within the empire since they will be the first to fall after start of full-scale combat operations between Russia and US/England.
It’s always dangerous working with mercenaries … they can always be bought by a higher bidder, though they may lose some of their contractibility thereby.
I imagine a few bombing runs over the troops may create some dissension in the camp … but we shall see.
Heard that..
Using convicts on that scale must be difficult too.
Without some over arching philosophy or esprit to
make them “belong”. Like the Legion , The Marines ect.
That would mean Putin has to bomb Moscow and Rostov, because some Wagner forces are already there.
They’re supposedly in Moscow oblast, but I haven’t heard any reports of them in the actual city yet.
I have a friend who lives in Moscow and she’s telling me that aside from seeing an occasional Army vehicle on the streets it’s pretty calm. She lives just outside the city center, and she’s telling me nothing has changed so far. In fact, she says it’s so ‘normal’ that she’s getting more information from me rather than from what she and her sister are seeing on the ground. I’ve just told her to keep her eyes open and be safe, regardless.
Don’t worry, Thomas. Everything is proceeding according to Putin’s plan. He brilliantly foresaw the need to use convicts as cannon fodder in Bakhmut and, having acheived his objective, he foresaw this rebellion of 25,000 murderers and rapists marching on Moscow. This will give Putin the excuse to eliminate the Wagner troops and avoid the embarrassment of reintegrating the ex-convict veterans into Russian civil society.
As in all things, Darth Vlad always knows best. Patriarch Kirill assured us that Putin was sent by God to restore Russia to its rightful glory according to a divine plan that only God and Darth Vlad know. Keep the faith. Darth Vlad will reveal the truth when the time is right.
Classic.
Classics last the test of time … this BS is already dated with the recent news …
May be a diversionary attack to revive the flagging Ukraine offensive … if you see a new major effort from Ukie troops today/soon, then perhaps this was the point.
Remember, on the USUK and Ukraine side, they are just trying to keep the weapons/$$ train running, so chaos is Russia can be spun as hopeful.
Take the nuclear terrorist down, please. The world needs to be rid of this cancer Putin.
How much of civilization and life on Earth are you are you willing to trade to achieve your goal?
zero, because that’s what he’s worth.
If you aren’t willing to take that risk, your best bet would be to shut the hell up and go play golf, or board games or something, instead of spouting stupid and dangerous nonsense on the internet.
What’s dangerous about my comments? I speak in truths not poltical rhetoric. He’s threatening Europe and the world with nuclear holocost. This is a fact. Between active threats of deploying tactical nukes in battle, transporting nuclear weaopons to Belarus, and putting the largers nuclear power plant in Europe at risk with open shelling and destruction of a dam used for the cooling of the plant. So no, I won’t shut up.
People like them are little more than human cattle. They prattle on about what their masters whom control the mainstream narrative want them to think about. No independent thought. No regard for the safety or sanity of the things they support. Or (increasingly so it seems) they are simply bots. This supposed coup attempt has brought about the biggest bot wave I’ve ever seen.
How many US taxpayer dollars are now in Prigozhin’s pocket and paying for this mutiny? How many CIA operatives are in Prig’s headquarters as shot callers? This will end badly for Wagner, and its intent from the Western perspective- to deflect from the disastrous Ukrainian ‘counterattack’- will not be overlooked. President Putin will put down the mutiny, and the Ukraine will still fail to defeat the Russians in the field.
Wow, you had to somehow spin the information against the US and in favor of your emperor, Putin.
Prigozhin seems to have been growing increasingly unhinged over the past weeks and months and it’s entirely possible that he launched this crazy, almost certainly doomed, misadventure of his own volition. But, as you suggest, it is at least as likely that he is acting with the support of the Western Blob, if not as an actual agent of that gang of bloody troublemakers.
Permitting Prigozhin to run amok for as long as he has was clearly a serious mistake by the Kremlin. It is turning into an enormous gift to Western propagandists.
As for Prigozhin, he’ll be lucky if he ends up in prison.
Take him alive and expose the conspirators who put him up to it.
Prigozhin will be lucky if he gets arrested and taken into custody, let alone prison. Prison will be the Promised Land for him. He is now almost completely isolated from his former allies.
Yes, it’s absolutely unthinkable that anybody could be unhappy with the Putin regime. Not that Wagner is better by any stretch of the imagination. But do you seriously think that the only way this could possibly happen is the US inciting it? That’s insane.
Agreed.
But many of the pro-Russians on this page seem beyond reason.
Oh, they are, that’s why I quit posting here for a while. There seems to have been an influx of some new, sane folks, which is good to see. (We will be accused of all being the same person, which I see has already happened on this particular article already!) And it’s nice to see that Don and Skywalker and Michael64 haven’t thrown in the towel yet.
But yes, colonialism is bad, except when Russia does it. War is bad, except when Russia does it. Dictators are bad, except when… You get the idea.
You have it wrong, colonialism is bad except when the ‘exceptional nation’ does it. Furthermore, where do you get off acting like some kind of authority on what is sane, you Julio wannabe.
“You have it wrong, ace! I’M the authority on what is sane and who you are and who you’re acting like!”
Yea, lol. Ok, I’ll try to make some sense of that. In case you never learned growing up, morality extends beyond borders, and that includes the big open borders of the exceptional nation.
Colonialism is wrong, full stop. But the fact that you think the US actually has open borders is pretty hilarious and tells me a lot about your opinions and how much they’re worth
The US does have “open borders,” both de jure (the US Constitution forbids the federal government to regulate immigration) and de facto (with 95,500 miles of coastline, it’s impossible to meaningfully “secure” them).
But our rulers, who care for neither legality nor reality, have indeed built quite the East German style police state on the idiotic premise that it’s possible to not have “open borders.”
I know the Constitution only explicitly addresses naturalization, but what clause explicitly forbids the regulation of immigration?
It’s three clauses.
Article I, Section 9 forbade regulation of immigration prior to 1808.
Article V forbade any constitutional amendment changing Article I, Section 9 prior to 1808.
And Amendment 10 reserves any power not allocated to the federal government to the states or to the people. Since there’s no such power enumerated in the Constitution, and since no amendment has been proposed/ratified to create such a power, no such power exists.
Which was how Congress understood the matter for 90 years or so, until an activist Supreme Court miracled the power right out of its deep, dark asshole in Chy Lung v. Freeman (1875) … and even after that, the first major immigration regulation (the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882) was premised on treaty provisions, not on that dubious SCOTUS ruling. It wasn’t until the 1890s that the feds took over immigration processing from the Port Authority of New York and opened Ellis Island, and not until 1947 that they even started requiring a passport to enter the US (and then, until after 9/11, only at major ports of entry and not at the Mexican or Canadian borders).
1) Wrong. Colonialism is always wrong. And there are no ‘exceptional nations’ in the world today.
Just lousy and lousier ones.
Please name me an ‘exceptional nation’ (if you mean ‘extraordinary’ and not just ‘uncommon’ when you use the term ‘extraordinary)?
And describe to us EXACTLY what makes it so wonderful?
2) Where does LemonyAlpaca ‘get off’ saying his opinion?
The same as you do…it’s called ‘posting on a chat forum’.
Me as well.
When I first got here, a few months ago, the place seemed reasonable.
Even refreshing.
Then a BUNCH of Putinbots showed up.
And even a few ‘Bidenbots’ made appearances.
This place went from reasonable to extremist…fast.
I hope you are right that moderates are coming back/starting to post.
Honestly, I think it’s been that way for quite a while. There have been fits and starts where there are more or less users from various factions. But it’s always had a very strong pro-Russia slant, at least since the beginning of the war.
There are a lot of people who seem to genuinely believe that “14,000 ethnic Russian civilians” were killed by Ukrainians in Donbass etc., when I have yet to see a single source that actually backs that up. Even Tass only claims 5,000 dead (and 9,000 injured) and doesn’t specify that they were all Russian or all killed by Ukrainians. https://tass.com/emergencies/1578619
The UN claims 14,000 casualties, but most of them were Ukrainian, separatist, and Russian troops.
This is clearly all being orchestrated by Hunter Biden.
I have literally already seen Twitter users saying that this all meant to distract us from Hunter Biden 🤣
That’s both hilarious and depressing.
Hilarious and/or depressing is Twitter in a nutshell.
Well said.
I am still waiting for ‘The Covid-19 pandemic was deliberately created by US lefty labs to distract from the Hunter Biden case.’
And where EXACTLY is a link to a NON-Russian, unbiased source that proves that the Ukrainian offensive is ‘a disaster’?
I bet you cannot produce such a link.
You Russian bots are just ridiculous.
It isn’t going well. Maybe not a “disaster” but certainly not a success.
https://news.antiwar.com/2023/06/22/western-officials-say-ukrainian-counteroffensive-not-meeting-expectations/
I never said it was a success…yet.
But ‘success’ is light years from ‘disaster’.
All it has to do is gain enough ground to please the western MSM.
That is it.
And they have already gained some.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-24-2023
“All it has to do is gain enough ground to please the western MSM.”
The MSM wasn’t the one who needed to be pleased. The American public was so the aid would continue. The MSM was going to do their job either way. And that job was to make sure the American public was indeed pleased. And since we haven’t been flooded with headlines telling us how successful the counteroffensive has been, it’s pretty obvious that even the MSM couldn’t bring itself to bullshit us into believing it was a success.
Look, children! Caesar is putting forth arguments without a shred of evidence to back it up. That’s what we adults call being “full of crap.”
I read Kadyrov tik tok chechen troops were sent to Rostov to put down the mutiny but got stuck in traffic for 3 hours.yeah right, they dont want Prigozhin’s smoke. They are probably pulled over somewhere shooting staged videos of them fighting and destroying Wagner troops
This is better than sex for you, isn’t it? 🙂
He doesn’t have that option.
Oh you know me so well, don’t you?
Totally.
F yeah it is. Anything leading to Russia pulling out of Ukraine.
I heard that autoerotic asphyxiation makes it even better. Including when no one pulls out.
This will encourage the worst fantasies of regime change in Russia. They are delighted.
This means the war will be longer and kill more, before they let it end.
NATO was wavering, but now will come back stronger. The result will be a lot worse loss for NATO, since this is unwinnable, and driven by neocon fantasies long departed from reality.
Wavering?
How the heck has NATO’s support – lately – been wavering?
They are already planning to send Abrams and Leopard 2A6’s. And F-16’s are not far behind.
And the U.S. just added $6.2 billion to the $100+ billion total due to an ‘accounting error’.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/extra-6bn-in-us-arms-for-ukraine-after-accounting-error?0=utm_source=ground.news&1=utm_medium=referral
How is that wavering?
Oooh, another $6.2 BILLION to ZelBoy?
Meanwhile, a train bit the dust while crossing a bridge that collapsed over the Yellowstone River.
WTF is wrong with this picture?
RT:
“An anti-terrorism operation has been launched in Moscow, the city’s Mayor Sergey Sobyanin has announced, describing the ongoing situation as ‘difficult.’ The upcoming Monday has been declared a non-working day in order to ‘minimize risks,’ the mayor added. Sobyanin also called upon the city’s residents to reduce travel across the city, warning that road traffic in certain areas may be halted completely.”
If RT is admitting the situation is difficult, we can probably surmise it is much worse than just “difficult.
Sounds like the Brits are in charge of this with Victoria playing supporting role.
or is any of that even actually happening.
really, a video = t.me , does that even play on any of your browsers?
it won’t on mine. how about the other one = kremlin.ru ?
that one doesn’t even load on my end.
oh and some questionable twitter vids. as if.
maybe let’s just wait and see what happens.
There’s something very “staged” about this whole thing, false-flagish maybe?
Again, Slavyangrad Channel on Telegram is the best source of information. Big news:
Message from the press service of the President of the Republic of Belarus:
This morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin briefed his Belarusian counterpart on the situation in southern Russia with the private military company Wagner. The heads of state agreed on joint actions.
As a follow-up to the agreements, the President of Belarus, having additionally specified the situation through his channels, and in agreement with the President of Russia, held talks with the head of PMC Wagner Yevgeny Prigozhin.
Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, they agreed on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company on the territory of Russia and take further steps to de-escalate tensions.
At the moment, an absolutely profitable and acceptable option for solving the situation is on the table, with security guarantees for the Wagner PMC fighters.
As previously reported, also during today, the President of Belarus held two meetings with the power bloc of the country on this situation.
My guess is that something big is going to happen soon. Watch for troop movements in the USA. When the national emergency broadcast system is activated and people can’t withdraw money from their banks or get gas or federal Social Security checks we’ll know the jig is up.
My guess is that not much will happen here. The Collective West might start figuring out that the color revolution script isn’t going to work with Russia or China. Will they give it up? I hope so but as long as Victoria Nuland and her ilk are calling the shots, probably not. They’ll let Ukraine hang out to dry. And a generation of male Ukrainians will be dead for nothing.
A color revolution with a nuclear power??? Well…. what could go wrong?
This will end with nukes.
You have an excellent instinct.
The first URL is the top page of the Telegram site and the second, obviously, is the official site of the Kremlin.
It can be difficult to reach the Kremlin site from IP addresses in the West. In the EU, there’s a block on Russian internet addresses. And many Russian sites have had to adopt measures designed to reduce various types of cyberattacks from the West, which can make access more difficult.
Using a good VPN and choosing an appropriate exit location usually takes care of those problems.
Often, although not always, videos on Telegram only play for registered users. And browser settings may also be the problem.
Both those sites load properly, and videos play, for me.
This whole war is so stupid and ridiculous, the demons are laughing at us (the human race)
IMO humans in general do not deserve this earth
That’s how the aliens feel right now.
This article by Will Porter seems to be the most accurate account of what is happening compared with the mainstream media, and the comments by Caesar_Saladin and Believe and Obey seem to be the best explanation of why it is happening
The Duran’s most recent video is essential viewing:
https://t.me/thedurancom/13574
This was the West’s last chance to take advantage of any dissent in Russia and it’s looking like a pathetic bust. Wagner Group is about to be dissolved, its officers arrested. What will happen to the rank-in-file Wagner fighters, I don’t know.
LOL, whatever man. Russia has a big mess on its hands.
So you say. I think you’ll find this insurrection will be snuffed within the week.
RT is reporting that Lukashenko, rather than fleeing to Turkey, actually went and negotiated a truce with Wagner.
If so, he may have leapfrogged Kadyrov in the “good BOY, satrap, have a cookie” line.
Your site got scooped, once again, by Telegram.
“My site” (whether you mean the site I work for here, or any of the sites I run) isn’t in the scoop business.
I beg your pardon, you’re right. This site offers stale bread indeed.
Stale bread is probably better than crow.
You tell me: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/putin-blasts-wagner-treason-betrayal-clashes-erupt-southern-russia
Belarusian president held talks with Prigozhin today. Lukashenko says that Prigozhin has agreed to “stop the movement of armed persons on the territory of Russia and to take further steps to deescalate.”
I doubt it. They will most likely be renamed as Grozny or Gagarin group and continue their operations abroad.
This was a well-staged show and it looks like it worked. Anglo-American empire will continue to waste resources on regime change operations.
I get it now. Masterful!
I didn’t realize all implications myself. Wow. Yeah. This thing is just starting to unfold. Russians will push like bouncer on a Friday night at the UN. The so-called “intelligence” agencies and old fool gave them everything!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/530f7b9fe5bba91e5d78a72759b5380150062b00cdbbc40bf648793abdf19aa7.jpg
If he was compromised by the west, he is as good as a dead man. Sad history of Russian politics.
It appears that Russia has its own Benedict Arnold to deal with.
Prigozhin says it’s over:
“They were going to dismantle PMC Wagner. We came out on 23 June to the March of Justice. In a day, we walked to nearly 200km away from Moscow. In this time, we did not spill a single drop of blood of our fighters. Now, the moment has come when blood may spill. That’s why, understanding the responsibility for spilling Russian blood on one of the sides, we are turning back our convoys and going back to field camps according to the plan.”
https://t.me/concordgroup_official/1303
(Translation not mine)
Additional essential viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE2IqsAO-2M
Didn’t Lindsey Graham predict something big was going to happen a week or two ago? I think this is what he was referring to.
If Lindsay Graham knew something, that’s almost proof that the CIA had a hand in this. My guess is that he was talking about Ukraine’s second-wind offensive, which is supposedly imminent. No idea what the last 24 hours’ shenanigans will do to the AFU’s schedule.
It’s unlikely that he knew anything. It’s easy to predict “something big” every other day, and eventually something happens that people can assume was the “big” thing.
Which is not to say the US defense/intelligence establishment might not have good enough SIGINT to have picked up on Prigozhin’s plans (assuming he actually had plans and didn’t just blow his stack as his public persona seems to indicate he does quite often). And, for that matter, good enough SIGINT to push his buttons by, say, creating the ammo shortages, etc. that have been his complaint for some time (i.e. figure out which convoys are delivering to Wagner, and feed targeting info on those convoys specifically to the Ukrainians).
It’s always unlikely that Sen. Graham knows anything, ever.
Truth.
🙂
Prigozhin acts up a lot. But he has a saving grace in that he consistently warns/criticizes the Russian military of being inadequately prepared for specific threats. Given reports that Ukraine is organizing a full mobilization just a few days before the NATO summit, his actions might not be as crazy as they appear. Or he may have completely lost it.
I can’t say Prigozhin is crazy. He might be acting perfectly rationally due to what he believes. Problem is, he doesn’t have too many people amongst his countrymen right now who agree with him. Roadblocks are going up all over Russia to keep Wagner at bay, people are pulling down Wagner recruitment billboards, others are haranguing Wagner troops in Rostov. It’s a matter of time before everything is over but the processing of detainees.
Glad to see this news story posted. Restores my faith in Antiwar.com. For awhile there, it looked like there was a bit of “Fox News Syndrome” going around.
While Ukraine might not be making the sort of gains that were hoped for with the counteroffensive, let’s not even for a second pretend that this war has gone the way Putin had hoped. It has been a debacle, plain and simple.
I kept reading comments like, “How can Ukraine even hope to win,” and my response to that is “How can Russia win?” They’re not some economic superpower that can keep this up indefinitely. You think China is going to bail them out? Sure, at what cost? Lake Baikal?
Anybody who actually cares about peace and human life should be praying this development means the end of this utterly ridiculous war that forever stains Putin, regardless of whether or not NATO was making faces at him across the border.
I kept reading comments like, “How can Ukraine even hope to win,” and my response to that is “How can Russia win?”
This isn’t about who can win. It’s about who can’t lose. You’re crazy if you think that Russia is just going to withdraw and accept their position as some sort of second-class power without a major war breaking out.
You mean a major war inside Russia?
No, a major war that would threaten civilization as we know it and risk the destruction of a very large segment of life on Earth. If you don’t understand this, no one should bother to pay attention to your nonsense, because it’s dangerous nonsense.
Like somehow, that would be a good thing for Ukraine?
Where did I even insinuate that? You over there talking to yourself?
Way back with your original comment. Follow the replies. When you said “inside Russia” I assumed you meant that as a good thing.
Oh no, not my Putin. He cannot and will not lose.
Never been “my” Putin. How about you Don?
Russia lost the war in Ukraine over a year ago. Just like it took DeGaulle and Nixon to end the wars in Algeria and Afghanistan, it may take a pragmatic nationalist like Prizoghin or Navalny to end Darth Vlad’s folly.
Prizoghin would nuke Ukraine … Navalny is also a nationalist and would probably act llike Putin has done re Ukraine.
No one is going to nuke Ukraine. What about the ethnic Russians Putin went to war to save? Prizoghin understands what Russia is fighting in Ukraine and in the end, he will probably be pragmatic. Navalny has already called Putin’s war madness and called for withdrawal from Ukraine, including withdrawal from Crimea. And China has been watching and does not want a nuclear war. Remember, China wants Russia as a long term strategic ally. But Putin is making himself expendable.
“this isn’t about who can win. It’s about who can’t lose. You’re crazy if you think that Germany is just going to withdraw and accept its position of some sort a second class power without a major war breaking out.”
I mean, the obvious thing to do is hand over Sudetenland because otherwise we’re just going to have a war on our hands.
Glad to see you back! I missed you.
Thanks! Reading/posting here was beginning to feel like in exercise in futility, but I was curious to see what the discussion was about the latest sh!tshow in Russia.
I’m looking at reality and what might happen if Russia actually believes what they say regarding this war being an existential threat. WW3 will look a little different. And again, this is my opinion on how I see things playing out. I am not on Team Russia or Team Ukraine.
Of course they don’t believe it — at least the leadership doesn’t. What the average citizen who’s being spoon-fed carefully curated state media believes is harder to say.
You don’t know that. And those average citizens aren’t blind. Those NATO war games on their borders weren’t a figment of their imagination. Their history is a bit different from ours. Existential threats to people in countries that have never experienced war in their neighborhood are hard to comprehend.
“regardless of whether or not NATO was making faces at him across the border.”
Or with missiles “7 minutes from Moscow”? Or the 10 war games that were planned on Russia’s borders in 2022? Those “faces”?
Well, then, I guess that totally justifies the targeting of civilian infrastructure.
What a genius you are!
And me saying what I said meant I somehow condone the targeting of civilian infrastructure? And you call me a genius?
how do you know what Putin may or may not hoped.
what do you think is even Putin’s ultimate goal?
i see that Putin has defended the Russian speaking people’s of Crimea and east Ukraine from Kiev aggression.
To be honest, there’s a LOT of Fox News syndrome going on here and has been for a good long time … witness the breathless reporting on the Amnesty International coverage of Ukrainian human rights abuses, and the utter lack of coverage on the same reports regarding Russia.
Do not lay your hopes into thus event, The guy is like some football club owners who take over boss coaches and screw up. And pay when things go bad. He is one of Wagner owners who got too cocky and makes things uncomfortable. His mouth was tolerated for a while, but now he is being pushed out by fellow coowners. He is now creating a show , a display of stupidity. He will be dealt with, as Eagner commanders are sick of his shouting and erratic behavior under pressure.
I think this puts Ukraine in more danger. And everyone else. Anything used internally by Russia will take away from the war effort. The possibility of “tactical” nukes being used just got greater.
Especially if the Russians believe the US and GB have a hand in this. Which is entirely possible.
What would Russia possibly gain from using tactical nukes?
If they use ’em?
NATO will use ’em.
They are not just going to sit their while Putin starts nuking southern Ukraine and say ‘oh well’.
I see the odds of this going nuclear as near zero.
Unless Ukraine crosses far into Crimea/Russia.
And then the odds would still be just practically near zero.
And if nato uses nukes against Russia, there will be general nuclear war with Paris and London and Berlin blown up … in other words, no, Nato is not going to use tactical nukes.
Depends on what they think they have to lose. I guess I can’t make that point enough. It doesn’t matter what I think.
This little delusion you have that your pathetic Pentagon grunts will rush in to rescue poor Europeans is ridiculous considering that Anglo-American empire provoked the conflict in the first place. Russians have no intent of harming any state under Anglo-American occupation and IF they will go nuclear, it will not be against any imperial vassal state, never mind Ukraine.
Like a typical terrorist, the goal of your masters is to hide behind vassals in Europe while provoking Russia.
Stop repeating this mainstream propaganda nonsense about use of tactical nukes in Ukraine. There is absolutely no reason for Russians to use anything even close to the power of nuclear weapons in Ukraine. IF they will go nuclear, it will be against imperial centers. Meaning direct strategic nuclear attack against US and England.
I don’t read MSM propaganda. And I don’t read whatever bullshit you read to keep insisting on the utter stupidity that a nuclear war is winnable.
Ok. So why do you think Ukraine is in danger of a nuke attack from Russia?
I don’t anymore. But if things would have continued on and Russia had to concentrate resources internally, I believe it could have come to that. Depending how cocky the West got.
Uh oh…reports of Russian troops pulling out of Ukraine to stop the Wagner advance and footage of Russian helicopters being shot at in Voronezh. All western MSM lies and AI deepfakes, I’m sure.
Yes, they are … and you’re part of it 🙂
So now CNN is reporting that the Wagner Group is turning around. Looks like Vlad gave him some more money.
Edit: Looks like Belarus brokered some temporary de-escalation agreement.
It’s either a bluff or he’s not long for this world. Or both.
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/06/24/the-rise-and-fall-of-wagner-groups-yevgeny-prigozhin/
Interesting.
“In the final analysis, this macabre attempt at mutiny won’t fly. Oligarchs are a detested lot in the Russian opinion. Any western hopes of staging an insurrection in Russia and a regime change under an oligarch’s banner will be an absurd idea, to say the least.”