Taiwan’s foreign minister said last week that the US and Taiwan are in talks on the possibility of the island being brought under Washington’s nuclear umbrella, a step that would make a catastrophic war between the US and China much more likely.
Taiwanese Foreign Minister Joseph Wu made the comments before Taiwan’s parliament, the Legislative Yuan. Wu declined to detail the talks when pressed if Taiwan had asked the US to bring the island into its nuclear umbrella.
“Regarding the discussion of this issue with the United States, it is not suitable for me to make it public here,” Wu said, according to The South China Morning Post.
Many of the US’s allies are considered to be under the protection of the US nuclear umbrella, including Japan, South Korea, and every member of NATO. Giving such a guarantee to Taiwan would mean the US could use nuclear weapons if China invades the island or if war breaks out by other means.
Such a guarantee is unlikely to happen in the near term as it would require a radical change to US policy. While President Biden has vowed to send troops to intervene if China attacks Taiwan, the official policy on how the US would react to a Chinese invasion is still ambiguous.
But the fact that the idea is being discussed will be viewed as a major provocation in Beijing. China has a no-first-use policy for its nuclear arsenal, but US policy leaves open the option to use nukes in response to a conventional attack.
That fart fluffer apparently graduated from the Zelensky school of Geopolitics
The nuclear umbrella, eh? Exactly what nonsense is this where there is ANY exit strategy whatsoever from a nuclear exchange? So basically, you’re saying that if China were to invade its own country, THE U.S. WOULD BRNG ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD. Why not say it like it is!
“Nuclear umbrellas” are basically a feature of MAD.
Take, for example, Ukraine, which has been under China’s “nuclear umbrella” since 1994. In the event of a nuclear attack on Ukraine, that “umbrella” would obligate China to retaliate in kind.
So no, Taiwan being under the US “nuclear umbrella” wouldn’t obligate the US to nuke China for invading Taiwan (let alone for invading “its own country”).
Sounds like NATO’s Article 5. It might appear that all NATO members are obligated to go to war to defend other NATO members, but that’s not how it really works out. In the end, the United States will send taxpayer money and weapons, but other people will do the dying part.
I’d say that the “commitments” are a lot alike.
Article 5 doesn’t obligate anyone to go to war. It obligates NATO member states to”assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.”
So if Poland was invaded, Germany could decide that the action it “deems necessary” is to have its ambassador to the invading regime lodge a strong protest.
Similarly, it seems unlikely that China would nuke Russia over anything Russia did in Ukraine*. But it also seems likely that the PRC has brought the matter of its nuclear umbrella commitment up in meetings with the Kremlin.
* except maybe as part of what I suspect but can’t prove is a secret agreement between all nuclear powers that the first one to use nukes will be mercilessly destroyed no matter the cost).
If Poland provokes a war with Russia, it is well advised not to count on NATO to bail it out, it would become another Ukraine, ending up in dust.
The USA can’t be trusted, so it would be a useless piece of paper. But in case of existential minimum no nuclear power could be trusted.
In all the years of NATO’s existence not once did NATO have to defend a NATO member under Article 5, never. All military actions were aggressive and illegal, and only in the interest of the US hegemon, and no exception.
I think that we’re getting close to the point where we’re going to find out what Article 5 really means. The west is going to engage in one escalation too many. And it’s not going to be a good look for NATO.
IMHO I think NATO WILL BREAK FIRST. Biden let the devils lose when they sabotaged the pipelines, and NATO MEMBER Norway actively participated and Sweden and others covered up and prevented any real investigation, NATO members imposed sanctions on each other if a member opposed sanctions against Russia, Biden is demolishing the EU by weaponizing energy, he is turning Europe into another N. American Rust Belt. Only US extorsions and coercions are holding NATO together for now. Erdogan was re elected. BIDEN IS MAKING ENEMIES.
Well that is a sign that it worked, but wasn’t Afghanistan an article 5 action?
No, it did not, it is very aggressive organization, the balance of 2 nuclear powers worked better as deterrent. We need a multipolar power structure. The USA voided all the nuclear power treaties, we are back to step one, MAD. We need checks and balances now more than ever. Afghanistan was not an article 5 action as far as I know.
Taiwan would be no more than a bait, China has no nuclear weapons stationed in Ukraine and no military treaty with Ukraine. But maybe you have a link or some other evidence?
Why do the neocons try so hard to provoke China, what has China done to Biden and the Nuland Vampire in control of him?
Is it possible to get even crazier?
The PRC gave Ukraine nuclear security guarantees in both 1994 and in the 2013 Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation in which China “pledges unconditionally not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against the nuclear-free Ukraine and China further pledges to provide Ukraine nuclear security guarantee when Ukraine encounters an invasion involving nuclear weapons or Ukraine is under threat of a nuclear invasion.”
Why would China provide Ukraine nuclear security? 1994 and 2013 was before the regime change too. Ukraine is not under threat of a nuclear invasion and was not under threat of any invasion, that was true for all Warsaw pact nations. USA/NATO NOW IS THE THREAT not Russia. The USA are blocking any end of the slaughter, the genocide of the Ukrainians, they want the Ukrainians to fight until the last man standing, American politicians are the war criminals. They will fight for the annihilation of Ukraine if it serves their interests. They are people without a conscience, but with greed for money and power.
“Why would China provide Ukraine nuclear security?”
A couple of obvious reasons:
* In 1994, several regimes were inclined to offer the Ukrainian regime security guarantees if it would give up the nuclear weapons it acquired with the Soviet Union’s dissolution.
* In 2013, the Chinese regime launched the Belt and Road Initiative and made nice with a whole bunch of countries, including Ukraine, which it signed at least one treaty and several other agreements with.
But ultimately, if you want to know why China offered those guarantees to Ukraine, you should probably ask e.g. Xi Jinping. I’m not the one who offered the guarantees, he is.
Presumably at some point during Putin’s nuclear saber-rattling after his invasion turned into a fiasco, Xi at least casually mentioned the Chinese commitment to turn Moscow into a smoking radioactive crater if the Russians use nukes on Ukraine. Whether it would keep that commitment is a different question, of course.
The Ukrainians had only Russian owned nuclear weapons to give up. There was no nuclear threat against Ukraine from Russia or NATO, promises at best were make believe if they were made.
Ukraine had the option to become a neutral country, the best that could ever happen, but the neo-Nazis turned it down. Why is anyone’s guess.
The nuclear weapons in Ukraine weren’t “Russian-owned.” They were “Soviet Union-owned.” And Ukraine, just like Russia, had been part of the Soviet Union.
You are splitting hair. Russia inherited the Soviet Union, only the name changed.
The Soviet Union was, in theory, a federation of republics. Russia was one of those republics, and the dominant one, but not everything that had ever belonged to the Soviet Union magically belonged to Russia when some of those republics (including Ukraine) went their separate ways.
Russia negotiated for Ukraine’s nukes, and got them. Part of the deal (in 1994, and renewed/strengthened in 2013) was China placing Ukraine under its nuclear security umbrella so that it wouldn’t need the nukes itselfa.
Russia is still a federation as far as I know, of course things have changed. Part of the deal was also no NATO expansion, now China and Russia are de facto allies, it does not matter what we want to call it. China knows it is facing its own Ukraine issue with the USA, it is called Taiwan.
Now we can assume that Ukraine is under the US nuclear umbrella. That is what this conflict is about or not?
OK, first you denied there was a deal. Now you claim that the terms of the deal that didn’t exist included no NATO expansion. Which is it?
Well, if it was not a deal it was an agreement, what else would you call it? Does it matter? Would you have some links to prove the promises to not expand NATO was never made? The promises made are supported with photos and eye witnesses. Do you know of one witness claiming he/she was never present at any time the subject was discussed or one single photo is faked? Documentation has been archived, it is publicly available.
I never denied there was a deal or agreement or whatever you want to call it. The issue is the people like you who claim, there never was any promise, any agreement or whatever because there is no signed agreement, therefore it never happened.
Oh, there were certainly agreements to not expand NATO. But those agreements were not agreements between China and Ukraine, neither of which were or are NATO member states.
Well, Ukraine is a de facto member state, but only since February 2022, long after the agreements that put it under the Chinese nuclear umbrella.
The Ukraine became a de facto NATO member immediately after the regime change in 2014. The USA provided NATO weapons to fight the civil war in the eastern Donbass region against Russian speaking Ukrainians. In 7 years about 14 000 people lost their lives in the Donbass region, during the civil war. The people who did the regime change are still with Biden and his administration, he worked well with them. Obama/Biden funded and organized a brutal and bloody regime change. NATO funded, trained and armed the Ukraine military starting directly after the regime change. They conducted combined NATO/Ukraine military exercises routinely and some 10 excircles were planed for 2022. That was continues because NATO soldiers could not be permanently stationed on non NATO soil, they had to rotate. The Army Times did report it.
I don’t see anything in your comment that’s untrue (although it wasn’t just the Ukrainian regime murdering people in the Donbas, and since those two oblasts had seceded, it was not a “civil war”).
And it’s all pretty sad. I wish the Ukrainian regime had just let Donetsk/Luhansk go instead of fighting an eight-year war with Putin’s proxy forces (and Russian regulars, several hundred of whom were among the KIA). I wish Putin hadn’t panicked when the death toll fell to low single digits per year and decided to escalate to full war. I wish the US had stayed the hell out of the situation since well before 2014.
But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. If there’s a hell, I expect that Biden, Putin, and Zelenskyy will be sharing a dorm there someday.
What is really mindboggling is the fact that people like you never ask what Biden could have done to prevent this conflict. Maybe you could mention what he could or did do to prevent or even end it now. All I am aware of is his continues escalation of the conflict and refusing any sincere diplomatic contact to stop it. He makes demands and points the finger at others. What is NATO doing in Ukraine, why is USA/NATO funding corrupt Zelensky and the annihilation of Ukraine? Why did Obama/Biden and the Nuland scum fund and organize the bloody regime change of an ELECTED government in 2014? Why can no one trust American governments, not even the allies? How can you excuse the criminal actions of a democracy like the USA???
Ukraine had the option to become a neutral at peace and prosperous state, all Russia asked for was autonomy of Russian speaking Ukrainians and no NATO membership and nuclear weapons on Russia’s border. But senile Biden and the neocon scum hopped in bed with the Ukrainian corrupt neo-Nazis. Zelensky is scum but he serves the INTERESTS of the US MICC. And the people in the USA, EUROPE, and UKRAINE are the suckers.
Senile old Biden can hop up and down, he is still a senile old warmonger in the claws of people like vampire Nuland and the neocon scumbags. All people without honor.
It is difficult to talk nice when you know of the horror these people have brought us and more yet to come, now they are demonizing China, when is enough enough?
Finally, Putin is a statesman he has nothing in common with Biden and Zelensky.
“What is really mindboggling is the fact that people like you never ask what Biden could have done to prevent this conflict.”
What, like this? Or maybe this?
“How can you excuse the criminal actions of a democracy like the USA???”
I can’t. Which is why I don’t.
I just don’t pretend that Vladimir Putin is any less a vicious criminal thug than Biden or Zelenskyy.
Be objective, Biden is an old demented warmonger and Zelensky is a corrupt clown and Putin is a statesman. Nuland and her Kagan neocon clan are running the show for Biden, and Zelensky does as told as long as the $$$ keep coming in, Putin has a competent administration and has rebuild Russia after Yeltsin who was Clinton’s man. Putin is a statesman with an 80% approval rating, a proud Russian, a man who can make a speech with meaning. Biden is incoherent and Zelensky is just a corrupt clown who does as told and does not care about Ukrainians. There is no evidence that Putin is a viscous criminal, you only repeat allegations from Russophobe neocons without any evidence. Look back and remember the WMDs the lies the neocons used to invade Iraq. Biden helped to start that war with more than his vote. Whatever happened to the WMDs? That was the biggest lie to justify a war of aggression.
I am being objective. Rather than being a throw-my-panties-on-the-stage-and-scream-my-love fan of Vladimir Putin, I notice that he’s a chekist thug who picked the right masters when the oligarchs had their fight over which mob would get to loot Russia. He’s what Zelenskyy wants to be when Zelenskyy grows up. And what Biden would probably have been if Biden had grown up in the Soviet Union.
The Western and Russian oligarchs looted Russia before Putin arrived. Donald made money under Yeltsin who was Clinton’s boy. Trump never did get his Moscow tower and he was never a Russophobe, it is why he did not get reelected. I think Trump’s respect for Putin is honest, and I respect Trump for that.
If Biden had wanted to with a little diplomacy he could have avoided the conflict building on the Minsk agreement and neutrality for Ukraine. Biden wanted the war he never even tried to avoid it and he refused to end it when he could have. It is BIDEN’S WAR he and the Russophobe neocons like the Nuland/Kagan bunch wanted this war. They are the real war criminals, they worked to provoke the war going back to 2014 and earlier. They supported the Iraq invasion too, they are not new to war crimes.
Yes, if Biden hadn’t done what Biden did, Putin might not have done what Putin did.
But both of them, not just one of them, are responsible for what they do.
That requires objectivity and honest information. That is the responsibility of a free press, most of all MSM. Without honest information Democracy can not exist. We are governed by big corporate lobbyists, that is our real problem. We need informed voters, not manipulated voters.
That umbrella is under total control of the owner, the USA, the same as in Germany and everywhere in Europe where American missiles are stationed, and once they are there they can’t get rid of them, the sovereign nation is a has been. Germany can’t get rid of them, every missile is also a target and a great tool to blackmail and extort Germany.
How many months until this crazed administration on Taiwan can be voted out? I’m literally counting…
If a nuclear war breaks out over Taiwan, literally the first places that would be obliterated to nothingness would be the cities on the island. Can we please try to prevent war from happening instead of egging it on at every corner?
If voting actually changed anything it would be made illegal.
Perhaps if a true anti war independent like Emanuel Pastreich made it into the WH.
What do you make of his proposed policies? – https://emanuelprez.com/vision/
well he certainly looks good on paper.
hey i like this part = “The Scientific Search For Truth”
right. lets begin with hollow aluminum tubes vs giant structural steels and see where that gets us.
His proposed policies do look good, in particular this one…
yes. Trump sort of looked good on paper also.
but then he had to open his mouth ….
If Trump looked good to you then I’m kinda getting worried.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e6e850218875956807b55ed454e92d31f7cff5929d8cc4cbc7417eaf442810e6.jpg
This in all likelihood will lead to war.what idiot bush started dementia Biden will finish
The PNAC people and political actions go back to H.W. Bush. A series of war criminals.
probably assassinated peacenik Lennon and literally tried to assassinate Reagan
Hw had brains and didn’t let them dictate policy. His son was the idiot who let them direct him
PNAC goes straight back to the Neocons & Zionist.
It’s all about a greater Israel.
The demented president and Victoria, his vampire, will move heaven and earth to get their WW III.
I like how Alex Christoforou describes Victoria Nuland. Just a small town girl. Living in a lonely world. She took the midnight train to anywhere. Just a small town girl with a dream. A dream to destroy the Russian Federation.
She ended up with a Russia hating Kagan and became a member of the PNAC pack.
Lots of money must be involved, the Taiwanese are not stupid, they know what is happening to Ukraine. They must have a bunch of Zelensky clones selling a piece of Taiwan.
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-vector/missiles-on-umbrella-600w-255706255.jpg
The nuclear umbrella protection is the most brilliant hoax used to manipulate public opinion. It outshines the joke way back when children were told to seek cover under their school desk in case of a nuclear bomb attack. The big umbrella beats all, up to now anyway. Or like the (non existing?)missile dome the Israelis are supposed to send to Ukraine
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-iron-dome
I have yet to see a Palestinian rocket, they have home made firecrackers, nothing of the Dome, and would they really use missiles at a cost of thousands $$$$ to shoot down a firecracker which at best drills a hole in the ground and in the night sky it looks like New Years fire crackers, I don’t see what I am supposed to see, it reminds on the Emperors new cloth. There is nothing, it is like the non existing WMDs in Iraq, the incubator babies, the F-35 fighter jets, the Gulf of Tonkin, and so much more. It all is propaganda, the Israelis call it Hasbara, they are very skilled in that type of propaganda. The link really confirms it, it is Hasbara at its best in MHO.
We need honest heads of state to end this nightmare for all the people , but the elite who started all of this is out there collecting more money to campaign for elections.
It is unbelievable, but the criminal US democracy beats the Criminal dictator Hitler. Morally, they are on the same level.
What good are glowing chip factories?
Maybe Nuland could answer your question, looks like it is her policy.
“While President Biden has vowed to send troops to intervene if China attacks Taiwan, ”
Would they be so stupid and take his word for it? No president has kept his word yet. Don’t they know or do they pretend?
China will take Taiwan before that happens , there is no way China will allow US nukes on it`s door step .
I have to agree…
“Taiwan under the US nuclear umbrella” doesn’t imply US nuclear weapons in Taiwan. It implies US nuclear weapons at Taiwan’s disposal in the case of Chinese invasion of or, especially, Chinese use of nukes against, Taiwan. There is no “before that happens.” It could happen in the ten seconds it takes Biden to sign the executive order making it so.
Taiwan is a part of China. The whole world, including the United States, recognizes that. So how can China invade a part of itself?
“The whole world, including the United States, recognizes that.”
Nope. The US “One China” policy is that it acknowledges the PRC’s position that Taiwan is part of China. It explicitly refrains from saying it agrees with that position, and also states unequivocally that it will e.g. supply arms to Taiwan for as long as, in whatever quantities, and on whatever terms it damn well pleases. That’s been the US position since 1979.
“The U.S. and Taiwan enjoy a robust unofficial relationship. The 1979 U.S.-P.R.C. Joint Communique switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing. In the Joint Communique, the U.S. recognized the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, acknowledging the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China. The Joint Communique also stated that the people of the U.S. will maintain cultural, commercial, and other unofficial relations with the people of Taiwan. The American Institute in Taiwan (AIT) is responsible for implementing U.S. policy toward Taiwan.”
https://www.state.gov/countries-areas/taiwan-2/ The US recognized “the Government of the People’s Republic of China as the sole legal government of China.” Did I miss something in the word, “recognize?”
You quote it right there. It “acknowledg[es] the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.” That’s not the US position. It’s the PRC’s position, and the US acknowledges that.
The USA is deceptive, slimy, always was.
The USA is only one nation and not the world.
The USA is a rogue state, they say a lot of things, depending from where the wind blows at the moment.
The USA would be in total control of any US NUCLEAR WEAPONS stationed in Taiwan. The Taiwanese are not so stupid to not to know that.
The US controls all Us NUCLEAR weapons they stationed in Europe, ask the Germans, they can tell you if they have the courage to open their mouth.
Bad idea, I wound’t trust the US in any case, will we really swap Kansas city for some place I don’t even know what it is called in Taiwan? Also why would China attack Taiwan in order to increase its GDP land area and population by less than 3%? Assuming any of that stuff survives the invasion. War is a bad way of doing business
I feel like there is a larger war in our not so distant future….
In other words the US won’t target Taiwan directly but they shouldn’t rule out a little flash and thunder followed by harsh winds….plus a little radiation.
A small price to pay for becoming Uncle Sam’s vassal state – a bit like doing a deal with the devil.
[the possibility of the island being brought under Washington’s nuclear umbrella, ]
Mexico just announced major talks with china on getting under the chinese nuclear umbrella for protection from a resurgent usa that may demand more mexican land again…BRICS is looking better and better folks…