British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte have agreed to work to form an “international coalition” to ship American-made F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine.
A spokesperson for Sunak said Tuesday that the two leaders would “work to build an international coalition to provide Ukraine with combat air capabilities, supporting with everything from training to procuring F-16 jets.”
The spokesperson said Sunak “reiterated his belief that Ukraine’s rightful place is in Nato, and the leaders agreed on the importance of allies providing long-term security assistance to Ukraine to guarantee they can deter against future attacks.”
Sunak expressed support for sending F-16s to Ukraine when President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Britain on Monday and said the UK would begin training Ukrainian pilots this summer. The UK doesn’t have F-16s in its air force, but some European countries do, including the Netherlands.
“We’re very keen to build that coalition of countries to give Volodymyr and his people the aircraft support they need,” Sunak said during Zelensky’s visit.
On Wednesday, The New York Times reported that a senior US official said the Biden administration is still reluctant to provide F-16s. But the official didn’t rule out the US approving a re-export license of the F-16s the US has sold to European countries. Other F-16 armed nations that have signaled they would be willing to send the planes include Belgium and Denmark.
NATO countries have yet to provide Western-made aircraft to Kyiv, which would mark a significant escalation of the alliance’s involvement in the war. Poland and Slovakia recently shipped their Soviet-made MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine, a step the US opposed in the early days of the war over concerns that Russia would view such support as the alliance directly entering the war.
The British have been leading the charge to escalate support for Ukraine, which risks provoking a response from Russia. The UK recently began delivering Storm Shadow cruise missiles and depleted uranium ammunition. Britain was also the first country to pledge Western-made heavy tanks.
Yeah< yeah, yea. By the time this rap becomes operational there won't be much left to defend, and I have a Huntch dancer boy won't be one.
You mean “piano man”.
Yes, a comedian actor turned President of Ukraine that has ruined Putin’s expansionism plans.
Get your facts straight Don! Take a look at a map showing U.S. bases around the world compared to Russia’s. That tells you all you need to know about which President of which country has expansionist plans.
..and the Congress.
People said the same about the tanks – and Ukrainian territory has grown since August 2022.
Yep, one of the standard Kremlin supporter’s lines.
Let’s not make it sound like it has been continuous since August of 2022. The maps look pretty much the same since September 2022.
So the Russians are still in control of Kherson?
But sure if you count form 11 November the movements have been minute – that however still makes the point that there is likely to be plenty of Ukraine to defend in a year’s time.
Yes, I was off by two months. My mistake. But talking about how much territory Ukraine took back means Ukraine is smaller than it was pre-invasion. And yes, there will be plenty of Ukraine to defend in a year’s time, but it won’t look much different than what Ukraine is defending now without WW3 breaking out.
Sure – your point being what – that taking back the rest will necessary start WWIII?
Yes. Especially Crimea.
So just nuclear blackmail – not sure it’s going to work, moreover if the Russians hope for a peace where they will not be under sanctions then I’m sure its not going to work.
I call them red lines. And I guess if you think Russia will allow itself to be completely neutered without using any nukes, especially the “tactical” variety, then you have a point.
Only Russia is not under threat f being totally neutered, it is under threat of losing a war of aggression – like the US did in Afghanistan – calling a failed foreign adventure being neutered is using the threat of nukes to annex territory because without that threat of nukes, they would be losing.
Then I guess we don’t have anything to worry about then do we? It’s just nuclear blackmail and they’ll back down. Keep telling yourself that and maybe you’ll even believe it. But it’s just like the US and Afghanistan. Sure it is. Once again just ignore the history since the cold war ended.
No not really, the Russians/Putin knows that they have nothing to win by using nukes seeing as even the Chinese and the Indians would isolate them if they did.
As you can see the west clearly does not believe in this nuclear blackmail – I’ve tried to explain why, that you do not like the explanation is what it is.
What the fuck is the difference who isolates them if they use nukes? Not having “nothing to win” is irrelevant if they have nothing left to lose.
And I read your explanation on a daily basis. I call it our MSM.
The difference if using tactical nukes is massive – did you not just suggest the use of tactical nukes?
The Russians have very much left to lose, like e.g. actual Russian territory – I read your comments and I call it Russian propaganda – that does not prevent me from being civil.
I didn’t say it would be limited to “tactical” nukes only that Russia would use them if their back were against the wall. And I didn’t say Russia doesn’t have anything left to lose, I said IF they have nothing left to lose I believe they’ll use nukes. And if antiwar is putting out Russian propaganda, then I’m guilty of making comments that are Russian propaganda. At least I don’t buy into the US propaganda like yourself.
Either it is supposed to be limited to tactical nukes or they will fire all nukes in an attempt to get first strike advantage – which is it?
As do everyone – which is why no one in any position of power is proposing to invade actual Russian territory.
I listen to the Russian sources and observe events on the ground, so if what I say happen to align with US propaganda then it is because we arrive at the same conclusions based on the Russian failures and what they say on Russian state TV.
From time to time provoked by what people say here I look up and read what is being said in our media (almost exclusively the European sources) but that it.
“Either it is supposed to be limited to tactical nukes or they will fire all nukes in an attempt to get first strike advantage – which is it?”
What I originally said was that Russia would at least use “tactical” nukes to keep from being neutered. And that basically comes down to Crimea. So, it doesn’t really matter if it’s either or. “Tactical” nukes will set off the fuse. Once they’re used, isolating others won’t stop the inevitable.
“As do everyone – which is why no one in any position of power is proposing to invade actual Russian territory.”
Yes “actual” Russian territory. That doesn’t mean Russia doesn’t consider Crimea to be a red line. They do. Even warmonger extraordinaire, Antony Blinken, says so. I guess we’ll have to wait and see what Russia’s reaction will be if Ukraine seriously tries to take Crimea back.
“I listen to the Russian sources and observe events on the ground, so if what I say happen to align with US propaganda then it is because we arrive at the same conclusions based on the Russian failures and what they say on Russian state TV.”
And I don’t listen to Russian sources. Do those Russian sources mention Crimea as being a red line, or did I just pluck that propaganda out of thin air? As I mentioned, even Blinken agrees with me on that point. If Ukraine is adamant about taking back Crimea, we’ll have WW3.
I suspect that in order for the Russian regime to use nukes, Putin would first have to be overthrown. He’s not suicidal, and he knows that any use of nukes will mark his personal end, the end of his regime, and dismemberment — at a bare minimum — of the Russian Federation.
I’ll leave it at that I think it will be a large mess if Ukraine tries to drive Russia out of Crimea. I hope I’m arguing with people about the possibility of nuclear war until the day I die.
Most of the rest of us highly doubt this, as using a tactical nuke would end Russian foreign trade – China, India, South Africa and Brazil would all end trade with Russia over breaking the nuclear taboo.
You either argue that the Russian believe that they can use only a (or a few) tactical nukes and contain it to that, or you believe that that act will set off a wider nuclear exchange, in which case the Russians will go for an attempt at taking advantage of the fist strike advantage using their complete arsenal – which is it?
No Blinken does not consider Crimea Russian territory – the US is concerned what the Russians will do if Crimea is retaken, but they recognize Ukraine’s right to do so. They have not once been reluctant to help the Ukrainians hit targets in Crimea.
yes the sources mention red lines all the time, though lately they have been complaining that red lines are being broken all the time. They have been arguing using nukes since last summer with ever increasing frequency – but fear not the Russians will not commit suicide over Crimea.
It is a big question if the Ukrainians will take back Crimea, but if they do not and the Russians are hence not put back in their box then the sanctions regime will continue at about the same level as now – the Russians will be deprived of the ability to project force within probably less than a decade – not to mention dirt poor compared to where they could be – nit sure that is at all preferable for Russia.
Ukraine territory has grown..
Yeah but they’re graveyards.
I know mostly for Russian soldiers.
They’re ALL Russian now. 🇷🇺
RIP Ukraine. ☦️
Well my stance is that they are not, as is the stance of the actual Russians.
My stance is that of most Russians and their democratically elected leader, Vladimir Putin, that they are one people.
That much was understood – the part the rest of us have problems with is that your friends the actual Russians are debating ethnical cleansing, yet call the Ukrainians Nazis – in proper democracies that is not necessary. And btw in proper democracies the leaders of the opposition are usually not thrown in jail and hardly ever killed, not to mention that the leading party hardly ever enjoys 24+ years in power.
They are not debating cleansing ethnicities… They are cleansing Ukrainian Nazis. BTW leaders of proper political opposition don’t take money from abroad.
Dr Strangelove has some serious fans in the UK and the Netherlands
Ukraine does not have until next year as postulated by quite a few people with aclot better resume than I.
Promises of future weapons is not going to break stalemates today.
What stalemate? Bakhmut is done put a fork in it!
Yeah, you’ve only been saying that for eight months now.
A picture is worth any response or a video:
As of 15:30 local time Bakhmut has been taken by Russian forces.
I’m letting those here that believe that final 10% (down from 20% a few weeks ago) still holds hope for them.
Some clowns here get really arrogant and upset when you post stuff that goes against their guesses and feel the need to pop in to babble about supply and logistics and just how wrong one is…..funny sad people…..
Has anyone “here” suggested that Bakhmut isn’t eventually going to fall to the Russians? So far as I can tell, the question is not “if,” but “when.”
Anyone? If I had to guess, I’d say yes. One stands out in my mind, but I could be wrong.
So you engaged in a long argument to agree with me…what a joke you are.
Er, no.
I have never asserted that Bakhmut won’t eventually fall to the Russians.
To the extent that there was an “argument,” it was the usual — you making up shit and pretending other people said it.
You babbled about supply and logistic issues would be Russia’s downfall now you are ignoring that….what a joke you are.
You must mean TLK!
Yup; he’s so full of himself. He pops in with an arrogant pronouncement of certainty then tries to dazzle you with a long post of musings as if it is the last word and you’re damned stupid to question him.
More targets for Russia to shoot out of the sky. What Ukraine needs most is to get rid of Zelensky and negotiate openly and honestly with Russia. Unfortunately, Victoria “f-ck the EU” Nuland will never let this happen.
If Victoria Nuland was a car she would be an Edsel. If Victoria Nuland was an airliner she would be the British Comet that crashed a lot. If Victoria Nuland knew anything about running a military she would be Adolf Hitler.
Not one success in the lot!
Where are they going to get F-16s? Denmark and Norway have taken theirs out of service, and the Dutch only have 24 very old early models they have already scheduled for replacement. None of the rest of these countries have any.
Denmark still has the F16 (about 24 planes) – the Danes were considering selling to Argentine in November 2022.
Norway still has not had the sale of 12 F16 approved by the US as of early 2023.
The Netherlands still have 24 F16 in operation scheduled to be retired in 2024.
And finally Poland still has F16 in operation 3 squadrones.
… feels like the used car market, even to the salesmen.
That’s why they are forming an international coalition. To figure that out and work out solutions.
That “international coalition” is the same 40-50 satraps who we command and control. No different than Moscow controlling Warsaw Pact actions, words, and deeds, back when there was a Soviet Union and a Warsaw Pact.
You see what the game is, don’t you? European countries give away old military equipment and America gives them new equipment including fighters for free.
Great for Europe and a fiasco for America.
Well, a bonanza for American “defense” contractors, though. And since the 1940s, the primary function of the US government has been to move money from taxpayers’
pockets to “defense” contractors’ bank accounts. So this just seems like more “mission accomplished” stuff.
..and then some back to the pockets of the supporters of the “defense” contractors in the Congress.
Who gleefully watch the stock market.
Maybe NATO should be a European “coalition”, and leave the US out of it.
More targets for Russia to shoot out of the sky. What Ukraine needs most is to get rid of Zelensky and negotiate openly and honestly with Russia. Unfortunately, Victoria “f-ck the EU” Nuland will never let this happen.
… and more business for General Dynamics. Wall St advice says buy GD; but, sell Raytheon fast -the $1B+ Patriot system is only good for knocking down Palestinian Scuds.
Funding the MIC will be impossible once the petrodollar is kaput and the troops are all brought home to put down the food riots.
Yes, an economic crisis is in the cards, but their first impulse will be (cf FDR) to go deeper into war.
“Britain, Netherlands Agree to Build ‘Coalition’ to Give Ukraine F-16s The UK announced the plan after a visit from Zelensky”
Zelensky truly does have a wandering clown circus hypnotizing world leaders.
The F-16 is a 44 year old design since first operational with America.
By what wild stretch of the imagination does anyone expect the F-16 so survive any better against net centric air defense systems and 5th generation Russian fighters with long range missiles.
Just pain a bullseye on any Ukrainian stupid enough to fly an F-16 over Eastern Ukraine.