The White House said Wednesday that it sees no prospects for negotiations between Russia and Ukraine and that it’s up to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to decide when talks will happen.
“Neither side is in a position to sit down and negotiate,” National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said, according to The New York Times. He said that “if and when it comes to the table,” Zelensky “gets to determine when that is; he gets to determine what success looks like, and he gets to determine what or what he is not willing to negotiate with the Russians.”
Kirby’s comments are the latest confirmation that the US has no interest in pursuing diplomacy with Russia despite President Biden’s recent warning that there is a greater risk of nuclear “armageddon” today than at any time since the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.
Russia has recently signaled that it is willing to hold talks, with the Kremlin saying its goals in Ukraine can be achieved through negotiations, but Zelensky has shown no interest. In response to Russia’s annexation of the Ukrainian territories it controls, Zelensky signed a decree ruling out talks with Russia while Vladimir Putin is president, essentially calling for regime change in Moscow before negotiations can happen.
Ukraine’s war goals are to drive Russia out of all the territory it has captured since February 24 and Crimea, which has been under Russian control since 2014. The prospect of losing Crimea would be viewed as an existential threat to Russia, which could be enough justification to use nuclear weapons under its military doctrine, although Putin said Thursday that he wouldn’t use nukes in Ukraine.
There are virtually no calls in Washington for diplomacy with Russia, even as the war in Ukraine looks like it will drag on for years and years. A group of 30 House Democrats sent a letter to President Biden on Monday calling for talks with Russia, but it was quickly retracted after the lawmakers received backlash.
Well, isn’t THAT a paragon of equity.
Is that a euphemism for bullsh!t?
You bet !
Well now, wasn’t it happening until Boris showed up???
Every politician has a price. The Azov support can’t be cheap either.
Puppet Zelensky dragging his country to hell.
“*****”
Oh so THAT’S what Boris Johnson was telling Z-man months ago, that he’s got the final say in whether or not to make peace with Russia, but he better not do it or else.
Or else what?
“or else” he could be replaced.
How on earth would they achieve that – if Zelenskyy decided to agree to the terms he could only be replaced if he had agreed to terms against the will of the overwhelming majority of the people – otherwise the will to fight would disintegrate very fast – you know that the grunts on the ground have the option to surrender.
Your imagination is very limited. Or, as usual, you are operating in bad faith. A Zelensky who does not toe the hard line could very easily be replaced by the Neo Nazis, with the tacit approval of the USA.
Here is the template:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_243
Yet you do not even try to address the core part of my argument i.e. if they replace Zelenskyy without the majority support in Ukraine how do they prevent the Ukrainians form deserting in droves. I did not say it was difficult to get rid of Zelenskyy but that doing so caused major problems – do try to engage with the arguments being made and not your strawman.
They cross that bridge when they come to it. The US is quite used to having “allied” governments that don’t command much loyalty from their populace (Afghanistan, South Vietnam). As it is, the Ukraine has had to institute a draconian draft system, and it is against the law for any “draft age” (up to age 60!) man to leave the country. And troops that try to surrender are routinely, and currently, being shot by their Neo Nazi “minders.” The war is actually quite a bit less popular than the BS “polls” or the Western media let on. Already. Even with Zelensky being all for it. Sure, replacing Zelensky with some stooge who has even less credibility and legitimacy than he does will create “problems” for the USA. But the whole affair is just one “problem” after another anyway. As long as the MIC money is flowing, and the war mongers can get their war on, the benefits outweigh the “problems,” as the US government sees it, anyway.
And, by the way, you responded to someone who said that Zelensky could be replaced. The “core” of your “argument” was to dispute that (“How on Earth would they ACHIEVE [emphasis added] that [ie replace the little comedian]…..”). So, no, you are wrong even about your own stupid comment. Don’t try to condescend to me, you don’t have the chops. Now, run along.
So no answer other than you think that they will try to solve a problem that they could not solve in Afghanistan!
Topping that idea off with the assertion that there are Nazi minders enough to infiltrate of supervise the entire army – if they were currently being shot by their ‘minders’ then we would hear of shootings like we did for the Russian conscripts just recently and we would not have seen the supposed Nazi minders themselves surrendering in Mariupol.
Any evidence of this unpopularity of the war – or just an other assertion?
The people can and surrender if they want to all they have to do is to shoot the minders if you claim that these are outnumbered – which they would have to be if they were drawn from the Azov.
The one lot that has to hope for peace in Ukraine is the MIC – they stand to make a lot more money from a Russian victory or a peace that does not force Russia out of the occupied parts of Ukraine – as practically the whole world will then have to prepare for others to do like the Russians and try to solve border issues through force.
The core of my argument was that replacing him would lead to problems if not supported by the population – reading comprehension not your forte?
In case you failed to see it I’ve tried to pin it out here:
So three parts:
1) he could only be replaced if he had agreed to terms against the will of the overwhelming majority of the people
2) otherwise the will to fight would disintegrate very fast
3) you know that the grunts on the ground have the option to surrender
Your only counter of any validity was to suggest that the Nazi’s are numerous enough to serve as minders and shoot any who tried to surrender, forgetting that if the soldiers have to fight then they have to be armed – and hence if the minders are not a very substantial amount compared to the people they are supposed to mind then the soldiers could just shoot them before surrendering.
1 TL, DR
2 Verbosity does not equal persuasiveness
3 Run along, troll
Always a pleasure when people like you acknowledge that they are beaten!
We wouldn’t “hear of” shit, Michael…not through the MSM at least.
Well put, PL, well put! 😁
Does the term “drawn and quartered” come to mind?
As stated I think that the ‘West’ (US) replacing Zelenskyy comes with more problems ones that unless getting rid of Zelenskyy is at the behest of the large majority of the Ukrainian people, lies outside the control of the West. There simply is little way to force the Ukrainians to fight any better than the Afghans did if they are feel that they are not fighting for ‘themselves’ i.e. for what is essentially in the best interest of their country.
“White House Says Only Zelensky Gets to Determine When Negotiations Will Happen Zelensky has signed a decree ruling out peace talks with Russia as long as Putin is president”
Senile Joey Biden and his shadow government are irresponsible charlatans.
Drag queen cocaine head Zelensky will lose Odessa and all of Eastern Ukraine by January.
Another rout of Western forces just like in Afghanistan and Vietnam.
Maybe Joey Biden can defeat the locals in Haiti!
Biden won with no campaigning, but started to campaign for 2024 the day he was inaugurated and never stopped ever since.
His handlers could hide his senility, not anymore.
Personally, I believe that the people in charge are cowards who will never take any responsibility for failures in their proxy war.
They got rich that is all that matters. Corporations do not care if they kill us all, destroy the planet, its all about money. They are literal psychopaths. Keep that in mind, when corporates control what can be said, psychopaths are literally controlling the conversation.
We can send 100’s of billions to the most corrupt country in Europe to wage war. Its a money laundering scam, they get rich while we all get looted. Exactly as Julian Assange stated, its a forever war, to wash money from the taxpayers into the MIC pockets.
This is why censorship by corporations is the end of democracy. BTW in US law it is illegal to supply money, weapons or any type of support to the Azov battalion as congress in 2018 designated them as terrorists.
*****
The Russian MOD is disarming NATO, tank by tank, artillery by artillery, air defense by air defense. What they loose in the Ukraine, they loose for the final war. This is what a war of attrition is.
Russia is inflicting a 10:1 kill ratio. And NATO overall has the following equipment losses;
326 Aircraft, 162 helicopters, 2349 UAV’s, 383 Anti Aircraft systems, 6084 tanks inc. APC’s, 874 multiple rocket launchers, 3527 rocket launchers and 6791 military automotive equipment.
Disarm and Denazification, not of Ukraine but EU and NATO. Europe will be Denazified, the US can continue to rot in its own pile of Nazi filth.
“Neither side is in a position to sit down and negotiate.”
Insanity! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8a950d2e667c2c4f6b9dc041404926a62ae10f38a868d0ac53d5ca8b1a57af2b.jpg
But Russia kept the door open, all Biden has to do is to walk through the door, if he only WANTED to do it.
It takes two to negotiate.
Biden? Hes just the mouthpiece and door opener for the arms merchants. It has to be russia sitting down with the ukarine and keep the usa out of it..
But the Ukraine has only the corrupt clown who takes orders from the senile Biden. How fu**ed up everything is.
Russia and Ukraine sat down last April. Boris and Llyod said no.
They are about to receive my backlash, at the voting polls.
that’ll teach ’em.
Not likely but I’m not a violent anarchist so it will have to do.
Remember when this guy put on this show?
“It’s hard to look at what [Russian President Vladimir Putin is] doing in Ukraine — what his forces are doing in Ukraine — and think that any ethical, moral, individual could justify that,” Kirby said during a briefing after a reporter asked if he thought Putin is a rational actor.
Kirby then chokes up and pauses for a few moments, before softly apologizing.
“It’s difficult to look at some of the images and imagine that any well-thinking, serious mature leader would do that,” Kirby said.
He added: “I can’t talk to his psychology, but I think we can all speak to his depravity.”
This coming from a guy representing the “shock and awe” USA that made Russian “depravity” look humanitarian in comparison. So, he’s full of sh*t up to his eyeballs once again and Zelensky doesn’t fart without permission.
but the US was operating a “war on terror” so that made it OK.
russia is perpetrating a “war of terror” so that makes it not OK.
get with the program man!
It’s always hard convincing people that “their” government IS the bad guy! That’s always been the case as the USA goes around the world attacking anything and anyone who doesn’t kiss their collective ass!
He never choked over the victims of Zelnski death squads — all ethnic Russian citizens if Ukraine. Selective crocodike tears.
Whic part of death squads we do not understand?
Because it is so much easier to depict tfhe tatooed guys in Nazi fancy dress on weekend outings not to be taken seriously.
Do we need to constantly repeat the lists of crimes? Really.
Genocide is well know phenomena, but we insist on spinning realities to fit narratives.
It is trully staggering.
Truth is ALWAYS the first casualty of war!
Yes, undeed! I am somehow worried thst in our eagerness to “win” we are forgetting what exactly “win” means.
Is Russia actually saving our bacon? We are so excited to have a littlecwar with Russia – that a minor matter of genocide means nothing to us. What are we doing? Allready we see the joys of revanshism in Baltic states, Finland, Poland — everywhere local Hitler’s allies have fought Soviet Army tooth and nail to bitter end. They are ecstatic seeng how US and Wstern allies calmly watch the Nazi death squads murder Russian population in Ukraine. Over the moon watching the brazen Zelinski regime drop any pretense of
the rule of law, in its drive to erase Russian culture. Enjoy regime persecute individuals on false acccusations of “treason”, steal private property by “nationalizing”.
What if under the hardship of inflation and lack of heating Germany turns to Nazi ideology for salvation? There are already some rich people bying Russian art — to burn it.
What then? Have we forgotten what a national ethos of excess angry passion, and zero compassion can produce?
We are trully setting Germany up for the industrial collapse — even if this winter they do well on full storage.
Our neocons are divorced from reality, and 20-something are writing our strategy in War College.
This time a REAL devil is in details. Our leaders are too enamored with big picture in moonscape — see no potholes.
Zelensky loves the war, it is the source of his wealth, and he never gets enough.
If he cared for the country and the people he would talk and negotiate with the devil.
Zelensky loves Zelensky.
That was my first impression. I wonder if he’s ever met a mirror he doesn’t love?
Or a camera?!
Or a too-tight t shirt? 😁
And it looks like an Olive Drab one. The kind they give out to real soldiers.
“It’s up to Zelensky” is just a way to avoid responsibility.
TheNewAtlas on YouTube made some good points:
-Biden is paying Zelensky’s salary, and the salaries of everyone in the Ukrainian parliament. (With your tax money.) He has full control over whether Zelensky will negotiate or not.
-When Zelensky did want to negotiate in March, to finally honor the Minsk Agreement, Boris Johnson flew in with the orders from Biden: No negotiations.
I could add:
Saying “it’s up to Zelensky, it’s his country,” as leftist “progressive” Jay Raskin says, is despicable. It’s not “his country.” There are millions of people living there. And Zelensky forces men to put on a uniform and zerg rush Russian lines, to be blown to bits by artillery. It’s their country, and they would sure like to stop the war rather than die when it’s their turn, but Zelensky refuses.
.
.
.
Zelensky’s war goals, not Ukraine’s. He was elected because he said he would “make the shooting stop”. The daily shelling of Donbass. He said he would negotiate with Russia. That’s what UKRAINE wanted.
His popularity sank like a rock to 30% in the summer 2021, after he sold Ukraine’s farm land to foreigners. Notably 10% to China, and also to Biden-allied Larry Fink’s Blackrock. (From which plenty of managers have gone to positions in the White House.) His main opponent was far more popular and would have won the next presidential election. So Zelensky started a war and had him arrested for “treason” for wanting to – negotiate with Russia.
Zelensky can kiss my azz, no more USA tax money for this creep!!
I agree, no more $50 billion checks… until the next one, which is soon. (S)
“White House Says Only Zelensky Gets to Determine When Negotiations Will Happen”…
…especially now, when Ukraine’s wholly radicalized – vs when Z and Russia were negotiating a settlement that would have relinquished NATO, + the US/NATO deep sixed it
As long as this war continues so will Russian Oil and Gas sanctions , I expect it will be a long war.
Zelinskey is going to lose Odessa this winter and with it over 50% of his GDP.
I hope nobody is really surprised by that. America has become a dictatorship by committee and the people have NOTHING to say in this mess created by the West. which includes the UK/USA/EU and the corps. who benefit from endless wars of death and destruction financed by the people who get nothing from it except more blood on their hands most don’t want through taxation and the coercion that goes along with collection.
“Colonial system, public debts, heavy taxes, protection, commercial wars, etc.,
these offshoots of the period of manufacture swell to gigantic
proportions during the period of infancy of large-scale industry. The
birth of the latter is celebrated by a vast, Hero-like slaughter of the
innocents.”–Karl Marx
Bull crap…!
Zelensky the corrupt clown is in charge, they let him off the leash and decide when to use nuclear weapons too? He is the Field Marshall in charge of NATO? The irrational neocons have lost their minds completely, and they control a senile president and then they turn the authority over to a corrupt clown, how crazy can it get?
Preserves the idea that we aren’t involved. I am pretty sure a phone call from Biden and a photo of his hand on the money/weapons tap could make Z a little more talkative, but frankly from an American perspective things are going great.
EXCELLENT ARTICLE: (won’t find it on the MSM, at least I couldn’t)
“Reconstruction of Ukraine” Conference: The dispute over the spoils has begun.
“War promises profits. This is also true for the Ukrainian war. Before an
end to the fighting is in sight, the dispute over the division of the
spoils has already begun. Therein lies the significance of the so-called
“Expert Conference on the Reconstruction of Ukraine,” which took place
in Berlin on Tuesday under the patronage of German Chancellor Olaf
Scholz and EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
READ IT ALL HERE: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/10/27/avso-o27.html
Spineless Scholz and the corrupt devious von der Leyen. only political theater, nothing else.
HAHA. Ze has NO agency. The USA has NO chance of “winning” but as usual wants to mess up the world for the interests of its own rich élite. Crimea is part of Russia. It is NO business of the USA.
Putin at the Valdai Discussion Club has now declared that:
The US has nothing left to offer the world
Putin warns of unpredictable decade ahead
By the way, Putin is wrong, the US very much still has two things it can offer the world: a nuclear holocaust and the LGBTQ.
Two more headlines from the West;
In Stunning Strategy Reversal, Pentagon Will No Longer Rule Out Use Of Nuclear Weapons Against Non-Nuclear Threat and
Biden questions Putin’s nuclear intentions
The problem with the martial arts is this … the cowards whom want to involve the unwilling participants, can’t deal with the opposing militants that want to oppose them. You guys will always suck, eternally. It’s what the amirikkkans don’t get. Man will bring the will to fight, for what is right. Is the US at war with Russia? N I, only in a cowardly, undefined way. Stop it
John Kirby says “only Zelensky gets to determine when negotiations will happen”. Why isn’t Zelensky making this announcement, not Washington?
Answer: Washington thinks it rules the world and gives out orders, in this case, “keep fighting and dying Ukraine because we [Washington] hate Russia”.