The State Department on Sunday implied that Ukrainian forces are allowed to use US-provided High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) against Russian targets in Crimea, which Russia has controlled since 2014.
When the US first announced it was sending HIMARS to Ukraine, Biden administration officials said they received “assurances” from Ukrainian officials that the rockets won’t be used to target Russian territory.
When asked if the ban on Ukraine using the HIMARS to target Russian territory applies to Crimea, a State Department spokesperson told Antiwar.com, “Crimea is Ukraine.”
“The United States does not and will never recognize Russia’s purported annexation of Crimea. We will continue to stand up against Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified war against the people of Ukraine,” the spokesperson said.
On Saturday, a Ukrainian intelligence official said that Ukrainian forces should start attacking Russian facilities in Crimea and suggested US-provided HIMARS could be used for such strikes.
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who currently serves as the deputy chair of Russia’s security council, warned Sunday that if Ukraine launched attacks on Crimea, it would mean “doomsday” for Ukrainian leadership.
“Should anything of the kind happen, they will be faced with a doomsday, very quick and tough, immediately. There will be no avoiding it. But they keep on provoking the general situation by such statements,” Medvedev said, according to Russia’s Tass news agency.
Medvedev also said that the fact that Ukraine and Western nations don’t recognize Crimea as Russian territory poses a “systemic threat” to Russia. “If any state, either Ukraine or a NATO country, thinks that Crimea is not part of Russia, it is a systemic threat to us,” he said.
The HIMARS the US has sent to Ukraine are equipped with munitions that can reach targets up to 50 miles away. The rocket systems could be outfitted with longer-range rockets, but the US chose the 50-mile range and sought assurances that they won’t be used to target Russian territory over fears that such attacks risk escalating the conflict.
But since Russia considers Crimea its territory, any attack on the peninsula would be a major escalation and would risk provoking a response from Moscow.
“Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified war against the people of Ukraine,” of course. Ze and his mob really are helping the people who have not yet fled or died in the “free democratic ” Ukraine. Crimea is part of Russia , ever since Catherine the Great. The West took Kososo out of Serbia and pretended it was a country, yet claims a USSR change means Crimea is “Ukrainian”.
One of Putin’s lapdogs
Whatever one believes about Russia, Crimea has never wanted to have anything to do with Ukraine from day one. But hey, shelling them might win their hearts and minds, right?
Where have you been Don Bacon?
Oh how the stupid traverse here to vomit nonsense…
W0W Law. You are booking -9… OMG is it really DON Baconon with another name. Why not the alpaca one. ” NATO set a trap for Russia and now Russia is making NATO EAT THE TRAP…!!!!!!! I Read that as a comment weeks ago, but it looks like it was on the money…..!!!!!!! What can NATO do, except kick off WWIII….. which would get worse reviews than Don Alpaca
Are you delusional too?
Try it and watch Kiev become a raging inferno uninhabitable for 10,000 years!
The Russians themselves value Kiev, as a city and center of culture they value. In the same way, the French would not blow up an enemy occupied Paris, nor the British London.
What they blow up is more likely to be something else, something they are more willing to see blown up. Perhaps it would be the former Polish cities along the border with Poland, like Lvov, and the transit points for weapons. Those the Russians do not value, and some of them they actively hate.
There are far too many Russians intermarried with Ukrainians in Kiev to make it a primary target. My wishful thinking aside I agree to taking out Lvov.
You obviously know that this is a civil war also.
Unnecessary. Russian knows where all the critical targets are and their cruise missiles with conventional warheads can go through the front door of any of them. No nukes required. They can take out the Ukrainian leadership – and all their NATO advisors – at any time they choose.
p.s. did I say Fu$k Joe Biden!
I’ll second that, CT.
Their mouths invite a beating.
What the War Party can‘t seem to figure out is the Allies ( RF, DPR, LPR, etc ) aren‘t farmers in sandels and AK-47s. The Allies have every capability to take out all sorts of Military Command and Control centers from Bremerton to Langley to Mons.
Also note, NATO has long defined TV stations, radio stations, university academics, and civilian trains as legitimate military targets.
I didn’t realize that NATO considers TV stations, radio stations, university academics, and civilian trains as legitimate military targets. Can you cite a source link or document?
Check out the NATO bombing targets during their attack on Serbia during 1999. lots of NATO official military pronouncements on the topic of these specific targets.
Forgot 2 – NATO repeatedly bombed the copper mine at Bor. Plus NATO also admitted deliberatelinv bombed Albanian refugee columns who were returning to Serbia.
Oops – NATO has been killing civilian academics usually via drone for the last 20 years who it defines as thought leaders in the GWOT.
Hell, in the run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld openly and unambiguously threatened to murder any journalists who weren’t “embedded” in US units. And one of the FIRST targets in the “shock and awe” phase of that invasion was Iraq’s state media HQ. So at least NATO members clearly see some of those things as “legitimate military targets.”
You appear to have conflicting viewpoints;
The US is a totalitarian military empire managed with representative democracy that rubber stamps everything you say and has been at war for 90% of its slave-based history.
Why do you think it should open embassies in every city of a country that it overthrew democracy in?
I don’t think it should open embassies in every city of a country that it overthrew democracy in.
I think it shouldn’t have overthrown democracy in Ukraine, and I think its involvement in the war there should be zero, zip, zilch, nada, other than perhaps opening its borders to Ukrainian and Russian refugees.
I just said what I might do if I didn’t think what I think and if I was in charge of things and agreed with those existing policies.
Kinda inconsistent today. That’s a result of a lifetime of the either/or mentality that’s part of the way Americans think. (see Kierkegaard’s ‘Either/Or’). Sometimes both sides are wrong, but in American thought which is linked to absolute good and evil metaphysically in the Judeo-Christian narrative, there MUST be one totally good side, and one totally evil side. Sometimes the brain in response to that mentality starts to fluctuate back and forth and can’t comprehend sometimes both sides are evil and wrong.
When NATO bombed Radio-Television Serbia’s main studio in Belgrade, they said the Serbian “propaganda machine consists of transmitters but also the studios from which the information is transmitted. That makes it part of the overall military structure.”
SOURCE: https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/apr/24/balkans3
When the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, they bombed Al-Jazeera’s news bureau in Baghdad.
In 2011, Barack Obama ordered the assassination of Anwar al Awlaki because he was making inflammatory speeches and inciting people to violence against the United States.
Under NATO’s own rules of engagement, media outlets that produce war propaganda are a legitimate military target.
So if Vladimir Putin ever decides to start assassinating hostile journalists from NATO countries, just remember those people who work for MSNBC and the Washington Post are a “legitimate military target.” Under the rules we’ve created, the Russians have the right to kill them.
Please correct my impression of what Medvedev was previously quoted as saying; The government centers of Ukraine will no longer be usable.
I think you got it exactly right. If the “Special Military Operation” has not already been upgraded to full scale war, a HIMARS missile attack on Crimea would likely guarantee escalation.
Which is what the warmongers in Washington are hoping for so they can sell more arms.
fortunately, ukraine does not have the opportunity to strike at the Crimean bridge. they can try but the chance of success is extremely low. this facility is not a fertilizer warehouse in Novaya Kakhovka. this object is very seriously covered by missile defense and air defense systems.
besides, an event seems to have happened today that calls into question the further use of HIMARS in Ukraine.
Today, Ukraine tried, once again, to launch a missile attack on a hydroelectric power station in the Kherson region using HIMARS. this is the second unsuccessful attempt, but this time with aggravating circumstances. fragments of the downed rocket fell on the ground and caused damage and explosion of the high-pressure gas pipeline.
after that, they wrote in the telegram channels that Gazprom sent a notice to several European companies about the termination of gas supply due to force majeure circumstances.
It seems to me that these events are interconnected and that the EU will be very “grateful” to Ukraine for this.
I remember a quote from Guy Ritchie’s film “Snatch” – “and most importantly Boris – do not entrust this business to idiots!”
I would not refer to the words of Medvedev. it doesn’t affect the situation. Putin (perhaps Putin’s press secretary is Peskov, but it must be borne in mind that Putin himself once said about Peskov “I myself do not always understand what he wanted to say”), Shoigu (or the official voice of the RF Ministry of Defense Konashenkov), Lavrov. these three people are voicing real plans for prevention and action.
Medvedev is a high-ranking Russian official – Deputy Chairman of the Security Council He’s simply taken on the “bad cop” routine to Putin’s “good cop”. He knows what’s going on and what the end game is. It’s wise to listen to him.
perhaps some clarification needs to be made about the political structure of Russia.
Medvedev did not perform well as president and failed completely as prime minister. Now he was sent to the post “until retirement.” something like the president of Germany. there is a position, but he cannot make any decisions and he cannot influence anything. yes, he can make loud statements but this is no more than his personal opinion. yes, they are similar to the general political line of Russia, but this is not something on the basis of which it is worth making predictions.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say he’s not relevant to predictions of Russia’s responses. As I said, he is privy to what is going on due to his position. His “performance” in the past is not relevant to that, and neither is whether he can make decisions (obviously he can not override Putiin.) What matters is whether he understands the security situation, the mood in Putin’s circle, and the intentions of the SMO, for which his position almost certainly means he does. As for his pronouncements, as I said, it’s likely he is serving as “bad cop” to Putin’s “good cop”. Medvedev is widely considered to be more of a hardliner than Putin, contrary to the previous opinion in the West, so he’s perfect for that role.
I repeat to you once again, Medvedev is the “president of Germany.” we have a different power structure. Medvedev has been removed from all levers of power, and he knows no more than what is submitted for approval to parliament, that is, no more than any Russian citizen who watches the news, about what is really happening. yes, since the Soviet era, we have preserved the tradition of positions for officials who need to sit out until retirement.
his violent reaction is not at all connected with some political games. no. this is an ordinary liberal whose property was taken away. after his assets were confiscated in the west, he absolutely sincerely hates the west. there are no subtle psychological games here. just hatred over stolen property. since Medvedev is not an official representative of the interests of Russia, he can carry any nonsense that does not harm Russia. if Medvedev tweets that “we will hit Britain with a nuclear missile” to analyze the real situation, this message is as valuable as it would be if I wrote it.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I believe there are other Russians who disagree with you.
Of course there are other Russians with a different opinion. I’ll tell you more! there are Russians who believe that Navalny can become the president of Russia 🤣
good luck to you and sanity to all of us. see you in the comments.
The execution of this war – of all wars in history – can only lead to escalation, in the pursuit of power. But power is an illusion.
https://patternofhistory.wordpress.com/
On one hand, attacking Crimea would be a really stupid move.
On the other hand, this “oh, our invasion of Ukraine is just a ‘special military operation,’ but if they attack any of OUR stuff, well, that would be WAR” is just dumb.
I oppose any US involvement in the war at all, but if the Russians keep this shit up and I was in charge in DC, I think I’d open a US embassy annex in every major city in Ukraine and announce that any “attack on US soil” — so much as a fragment of shrapnel in the exterior wall — would serve as the pretext for nuclear “retaliation,” just to see how Medvedev likes getting what he’s dishing out.
What about the people who live in Crimea. Are they simply fair game? It they claim Crimeria is Ukraine, than the Cremians are Ukrainians and they will be killing their own people. Should the population not be asked first what they want? If they are overwhelmingly pro Russia, then Cremia become occupied territory if returned to Ukraine and civil war will ensue, same as in the Donbas.
“Should the population not be asked first what they want?”
And they were. With 90% wanting to be part Russia.
With armed russi fascists at the polls. Yes, really democratic, comrade
Crimea balked at being part of Ukraine from day one. The compromise was they got autonomy and their own parliament. Then in 2014, they saw a even less friendly Ukraine government crackdown coming and Russia was clearly a preferred alternative, at least in terms of military defense.
very strange … there are no facts confirming the presence of some kind of Russian fascists in Crimea at the time of the referendum.
there are a lot of facts confirming the active participation of Ukrainian Nazis in the 2014 coup d’état. and photos and videos.
you want to say that the Ukrainian regime to which the United States supplies weapons is not legitimate?!?😲
Don’t give yourself away with the “comrade”, Don.
Bullshit…!!!!! First the Hillary, Obama coup!!! 2014. Then the Nazi fascist’s making war on the Russian speaking Ukrainians. This whole trouble is U.S. planned, financed, with 5 billion dollars of NED money..
I Might have given a different answer had I KNOWN I was replying to the many faced clown Don Bacon, Don Julio & SOME alpaca.. All the same clown who accused Bianca of posting while intoxicated.. This guy is without any character whatsoever. I just caught him upvoting himself Law and Order by himself Don Julio… He has ZERO shame, and the same goes for integrity. His sophmoronic banter is easily identifiable.. I think that he himself has to be drunk to accuse one of the most prolific posters here, Bianca who posts in two languages and has an encyclopedic knowledge of the balcan ethnic squabbles, she is a go to foe all things political in EUROPE..
The
Yes, a very transparent voting process I remember.
Hey, there’s a huge Russian population in Sunny Isles, Florida that would love to be part of Russia. Should Putin go ahead and try to annex it? Hmm Perhaps is too far. What about Narva, Estonia? That one is right across the border.
Now you’re concerned with “voting process” when your ilk planned, funded, and helped carry out the violent coup of the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014.
If China and/or Russia had massive military forces in northern Mexico after they helped overthrow the democratically elected government there, you’d be singing a different tune.
Sure Don, because Florida is Russia’s only warm water port, and the US/NATO are using them as a sacrificial lamb to destroy Russia. But continue to ignore facts with your nonsensical posts about how Russia is going to attack any fucking place people speak Russian.
The neo-Nazis in Ukraine want to exterminate all the Russians. This is more of a ethnic cleansing war than anything else. Sad Wash. sides with the Nazis, isn’t it?
Attacking Crimea would certainly provoke a Russian Tactical Nuclear attack on Ukraine. What happens then?
We nuke them back to the stone age
Like they won’t retaliate? Russia isn’t Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Vietnam. They too have H bombs and the means to deliver them. Too bad males get war fever and start wars. Especially American men who are so willing to send their young people somewhere as cannon fodder in another war for corp. profits and Wash. egos. As the old song keeps repeating, ‘. . .when will they ever learn, when will they ever learn? ‘
In your dreams.
Russia’s nukes outnumber those of Amerikkka.
and they now have HYPERSONIC delivery, placing every surface ship vulnerable their to destruction. All those multi billions costing aircraft carriers & battleship easy pickings for them.. That’s a revolution in armaments, rendering trillions in ships obsolete until something changes in hypersonics or their defense measures
It’s not the quantity. It’s the quality and ability to employ them.
Deploy them – corrected for you!!!
Who the f##k is “we”? Count me out of your “we” you creep.
I’m thinking Don Bacon with a new name. Same style.
ha ha ha 😂 The US has already done it, but for some reason not with Russia, for some reason with Ukraine and the EU🤣
Warmonger, armchair corporal, and Rambo Toy collector!!!
Exhibit A: Right up there ^^^^^
The Russians will not be the first to use nuclear weapons. If the Ukrainians bomb Crimea or the Crimean Bridge, it will be bye-bye Liviv and Kiev without the use of nuclear weapons.
Russia doesn’t need to use nukes of any kind in Ukraine. At any given day they can destroy the entire leadership in Kiev with a barrage of missiles. They simply don’t for their own reasons. An attack on Crimea, however, is likely to override those reasons.
It sounds like a provocation that the Ukies were EXPLICITLY warned about by Medev. It is continuing to sound like the U.S. & their NATO Gnomes are lookin to wave a red flag in the face of the bear. Maybe the time has arrived for the organ grinder to ex a few chickens to scare the larger flock and the monkey. Is there something going on here that I do not see or understand. So many chickens, and only 1 peer to the bear. It has all the potential for bye bye London & Paris as tourist destinations this summer & maybe this decade. What do all you antwar regular posters think of this latest crazy talk, and potential dash by the Gnomes to go on over a forewarded abut RED LINE. Is ole Joe grandstanding to get tough press, or is this one more senior “moment.” of a series…!!!!!!!!!
I think a “senior moment” for Biden would only be when he does something that promotes peace. Otherwise, he’s just being his warmongering self that he’s been his entire career.
Bye bye Ukraine
Biden is pushing for continental war to have NATO and Russia destroy the continent and Russia Biden will deliver the guns making huge profits. Europe was always picked for the next war’s battlefield.
There are reports of war crimes against Russian pow soldiers, unimaginable cruel and beastly committed by Ukrainian troops, Asov people. Which the Russians most likely would not want to become public. Biden must know about it, there are plenty of CIA people in Ukraine. Denazification could get very bloody.
DC is full of real war criminals and they will destroy Europe completely to get what they want. The Russophobes in the state department are evil people.
Hi Renate
I have read that the Ukrainazis have castrated Russian POWs.
There are also reports of the Ukes calling the mothers of dead Russian soldiers on those soldiers cell phones and laughingly reporting that their sons were dead.
Chilling.
Not a word about it in MSM. It must be true, or they would make a big noise calling it lies. As far as I know Russia is quietly collecting evidence about it. They tortured POWs before they killed them. I have seen some photos, to see one is more than enough.
But you can’t think Russia is innocent of any such crimes. EVERY war has war criminals on BOTH/ALL sides.
I did not say that, I really referred to public knowledge. If Russian soldiers were aware of the details, they would be hard to keep disciplined and controlled, including the families of the soldiers. So the Russians are mostly silent for good reason, to protect the victims families too and the moral of their soldiers. Things can easily get out of control. Battle brutalizes people, they do things they would never have believed they could do.
But it is Biden who accuses the others of war crimes, including Putin. He has no reservations to stir the pot of hate some more.
I agree, Biden accuses others while overlooking his own. But that also applies to whomever is telling us about the Ukrainian’s war crimes because like I said, every participant in every war commits war crimes. Now, to what degree each side is doing it is another story but that is also subject to the bias of the one’s reporting the crimes.
What about when we forced the break-up of Yugoslavia/Serbia?
Forced??? Yugoslavia was a fake country invented by communists
about Yugoslavia, you missed a lot, but if you wrote this about Ukraine, then everything is right. everything is exactly like that. you want to say that the Ukrainian SSR and further Ukraine do not have the right to exist? ok, we will consider your suggestion.😎
Well Don Bacon, Ukraine is a fake country invented by Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev.
I didn’t read down far enough, you figured him out too.
Is there anything this guy Bacon says or does that is straight, upfront AND not dishonest or crooked….?????
Like Ukraine?
Better check your history. Yugoslavia was a country in Southeast
Europe and Central Europe for most of the 20th century. It came into
existence after World War I in 1918 under the name of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes by the merger of the provisional State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs with the Kingdom of Serbia, and constituted the first union of the South Slavic people as a sovereign state, following centuries in which the region had been part of the Ottoman Empire and Austria-Hungary.
LOOK, this clown upvoted himself again here too here too… WTF!!!!! He must be a little sick to be so venal, and he lies too. He is shameless. All Don Bacon: Law and order, Don Julio. Something very dishonest about someone having many user names and upvoting his other personas. What a loser!!!!!!!
It makes downvoting him all the more fun.
I understand the larger group in this blog are Pro Putin, Anti US/NATO and against Ukraine. But that doesn’t make the minority all the same person.
The smaller group is for death, destruction, Empire seeking, and war. And a “rules based order” – OURS
King Alexander named it Yugoslavia in 1929. Previously, it was known as the “Versailles State.” See post by Lily Sandoz.
the US and its nato allies are really cruising for a bruising
Could very well happen.
It is hard to foresee a path out of the mess Biden created without a major defeat for Ukraine and NATO. It may even break up NATO.
That would be one positive from the mess. NATO should have been broken up a lot time ago. They need to stop being the U.S. lapdogs.
Really though, if they weren’t lapdogs they wouldn’t exist.
I might have to change my opinion of him if he breaks up NATO. Even if he does so inadvertently.
One of Putin’s useful idiots
Oh let’s not make Putin mad!!! You people arevehat Putin call useful idiots
Russia is already mad at NATO’s betrayal and lies. That’s why there is war. Russia has a bad history with being attacked by other forces since ancient times. And, like the Jews, after the last war which was also a holocaust for Russia, they too believe in the ‘NEVER AGAIN!’ narrative.
Wash., both parties are determined to start a war with Russia, China and Iran and there’s nothing the people can do about it. And, if the Dems. lose the next elections, the Reps. will just pick up where the Dems. left off. That’s how it always works with these forever wars. Wash., the war industry and media are all together for another war since they all benefit and are linked in the stock market. People here just say the same things over and over as we preach to the choir again and again. There’s no anti war movement in the right or the left today, just a population unaware of what’s to come as they continue to vote for their ‘lesser evils,’ which is still voting for evil, isn’t it?
On one hand, attacking Crimea would be a really stupid move.
On the other hand, this “oh, our invasion of Ukraine is just a ‘special military operation,’ but if they attack any of OUR stuff, well, that would be WAR” is just dumb.
I oppose any US involvement in the war at all, but if the Russians keep this shit up and I was in charge in DC, I think I’d open a US embassy annex in every major city in Ukraine and announce that any “attack on US soil” — so much as a fragment of shrapnel in the exterior wall — would serve as the pretext for nuclear “retaliation,” just to see how Medvedev likes getting what he’s dishing out.
Would you go there yourself “just to see how he likes it”? or, like all your tribe, just prescribing Russian roulette for them?
Which “tribe” is it that you fantasize I belong to?
And why would I have to “go there” to see how someone likes being talked to the way he talks to others?
From the list of available options — and there were several — Putin and Co. chose to escalate the “frozen conflict” in Donbas into an invasion of Ukraine. That may have been the best available option in their analysis, but it hardly leaves them any grounds for premptively whining that their opponents might also reach out and touch them on their territory.
“From the list of available options — and there were several”
And of those options, which ones would have alleviated Russia’s concerns? When was the west going to move from the status quo?
None of those options were likely to “alleviate Russia’s concerns.” Including the option they chose.
One of the Russian regime’s excuses for massing troops to invade Ukraine was that the Ukrainian regime was massing troops to invade Donbas. Putin COULD, for example have simply stuck with an ultimatum that if the Ukrainian operation happened, Russia would respond in kind on behalf of Donbas and do what it’s doing now (secure Donbas, as well as a land corridor to connect Donbas to Crimea). They had troops massed/mobilized. He had troops massed/mobilized. Going ahead and launching an offensive first was entirely a matter of choice. The Russians may have had reasons for deciding that was the best choice, but it was still a choice.
As for this or that military response to the choice, my attitude toward all regimes is “buy the ticket, take the ride.”
For example, after the US spent a decade telling bin Laden to go f**ck himself when he demanded US withdrawal from the Middle East, even after e.g. the first WTC attack, the USS Cole, etc., and 9/11 finally happened, my response was “well, what did you expect? That your actions would go unanswered? That you could do whatever you wanted, but insist that your stuff be immune from attack?”
The Russians chose to go to full-on open war. That has consequences, and the consequences can be bad. Whining about it just makes them look stupid. Buy the ticket, take the ride.
It’s impossible for me to disagree with what you say. I’ll just leave it at they were as close as you could get to having no other options if they wanted to survive. At least as something other than a subservient lapdog.
And I agree with you both. I grew up when Vietnam was the dominant force in every single Amerikkkan’s life, and I hate war as much as the next guy or gal.
But given the entire background of the situation, I simply cannot see where Putin had any other legitimate choice.
Let’s go back and find out why you think the USA is the world policeman and can’t mind its own business. America is going down quickly and still Wash. is more concerned about corp. profits for the war industry than for the people who elect them and pay their wages. How much blood and money does the USA have to spend to save the world from itself? do you have a price in mind? Remember Bin Laden said the WTC was attacked because of US support of Israel and bases around Islamic holy sites.
“Let’s go back and find out why you think the USA is the world policeman”
If you think I think that, that thing you’re doing that you think is thinking isn’t.
I just responded to your post, that’s all. You’re sounding more and more like a neo-con. Other’s here also think that. My post is in conjunction with the one in which you wrote, “If it were up to me. . .”
Russia warned everyone about what would happen even before the start of events. formally warned. Ukraine started the conflict on the 19th. as a result, all the claims against Russia are only that Russia did what it warned about, and no one expected this. funny.
about whining, a large group of the population of the earth is very sensitive to whining. otherwise, why would they shoot milodramas 😉 try to explain why Russia should not work with this group of the population in the information field? this whining is not for you and those for whom it is intended eat it. for you… for example Kadyrov and his detachment “Akhmat”. they don’t whine, they do.
Moscow doing what Wash. did with Texas as an example. Texans were persecuted by Mexico and wanted separation, so Wash. took advantage of that and went in on Texas side, defeated Mexico and took most of Mexico’s territory after the war. Just another example of the victor getting the spoils of war. History rhymes as Mark Twain said, doesn’t it?
“Liberating” Texas was one thing.
The rest was a war based on false pretexts in order to foment a blatant land-grab from Mexico.
Typical of the Amerikkkan guvvmint.
This is so stupid on so many levels – it’s basically kindergarten level reasoning. Apparently Knapp is more brain-dead than Biden in his old age.
He’s complaining that Russia chose to preempt an imminent attack, despite the fact that waiting would have meant many more Donbass casualties and put Russia in reaction mode militarily. Not to mention the threat of biological warfare against Russia from the US-controlled labs in Ukraine or even nuclear attack based on the Ukraine threats to get nuclear weapons of some sort.
As Putin is quoted as saying, “if you’re going to get hit, hit first.” Knapp’s moralizing doesn’t change the rationality of that.
Then he babbles about how it’s not right to point out what the bully gets when he picks on the wrong target. It’s Ukraine (and NATO) that was the bully here and Russia is merely informing them of what will happen if they continue to try to be bullies instead of backing down.
So NATO and Ukraine “bought the ticket” so they can “ride the ride.” Knapp is just pissed because it’s his side – despite his protests that he doesn’t have one – that is losing badly.
Both sides bought tickets.
Both sides are taking the ride.
Neither side should whine that they didn’t know there were loops and sudden drops on the ride and that it’s unfair that when they go to war, bad shit happens and that Area X should be magically excluded from the ride running through it.
I never “complained” that “Russia chose to preempt an imminent attack.”
I simply pointed out that preempting an imminent attack, and the way of doing it, were both optional. They may have been the BEST options, but they were options. Putin decided to invade Ukraine. That’s just a fact of reality.
You’re an idiot. In war the enemy is not allowed to do anything. Which is what Medvedev is doing – warning Ukraine of that fact and the consequences.
It is YOU who decided that this is “whining” when in fact it is YOU who are “whining” about Russia’s SMO.
You come in here whining every time someone points out that Ukraine is losing and losing badly. You claim that you don’t like either side, but you only come in here bitching and moaning about Russia. You’ve not once complained about what Ukraine is doing.
Russia is going to take all of Ukraine. None of your whining is going to change that. So suck it, Knapp.
“You’ve not once complained about what Ukraine is doing.”
I’ve not once “complained” about what Russia is doing, either.
And I have pointed out that Zelenskyy and Company are idiots if they think the war ends with the Donbas or Crimea in Ukrainian hands, and that if Zelenskyy and Company (and his predecessors) had just let the LPR/DPR go and unilaterally renounced NATO membership — or if, before that, the US hadn’t sponsored the coup that put those jokers in power — the current situation would probably not look anything like it does.
Your definition of “anti-Russia” is “doesn’t squee like a 12-year-old K-Pop fan every time Lavrov flaps his gums.”
Both sides bought tickets.
Both sides are taking the ride.
Neither side should whine that they didn’t know there were loops and sudden drops on the ride and that it’s unfair that when they go to war, bad shit happens and that Area X should be magically excluded from the ride running through it.
I never “complained” that “Russia chose to preempt an imminent attack.”
I simply pointed out that preempting an imminent attack, and the way of doing it, were both optional. They may have been the BEST options, but they were options. Putin decided to invade Ukraine. That’s just a fact of reality.
Both sides bought tickets.
Both sides are taking the ride.
Neither side should whine that they didn’t know there were loops and sudden drops on the ride and that it’s unfair that when they go to war, bad shit happens and that Area X should be magically excluded from the ride running through it.
I never “complained” that “Russia chose to preempt an imminent attack.”
I simply pointed out that preempting an imminent attack, and the way of doing it, were both optional. They may have been the BEST options, but they were options. Putin decided to invade Ukraine. That’s just a fact of reality.
Advice: when you find yourself deep in a hole STOP DIGGING.
Good advice — but I doubt that Biden, Zelenskyy or Putin will take it. They’ll all keep digging until the dirt collapses on top of them. And, unfortunately, on the rest of us.
It’s not Russia that is carping as far as I can tell, but the U.S. & NATO who are doing all the screaming. Makes me wonder just who is running this war in Washington. Who is conducting NATO strategy? Stoltenburg seems to cherry pick the most offensive possible contributions to the dialog like pointing Z-Man towards a warned of very red line of attempting to recovering Crimea. Kinda makes one think Stoltenburg must want to escalate this unfortunate episode to “full thermonuclear mode” quickly and decisively. Russia won’t be in any “full-on open war” until their game changing hypersonic nuclear missiles are powering into NATO & Ukraine capitols. So far Russian hits have all been of the gloves on variety compared to what cataclysmic ruin their munitions are capable of wrecking on any hapless, and due to their hypersonic speeds, defenseless victims. By refusing to negotiate and talking trash too, they challenged Russia. And Russia has replied with actions which speak far more convincenly than mere words. “O.K. Tough guy, what are you going to do now…??? You want your whole place to become rubble, just keep up your antagonistic talk and less than paramount response, and rubble it will be. Whether you end up with a state left is more and more up to you.
Putin was forced to do something. He was not forced to do this one thing. He had choices.
However, the other choices were also bad ones, when examined in more detail. It was a cornucopia of bad choices, of which he had to choose one.
That is what makes the Cuban Missile Crisis so worthy of the extensive study it has gotten. Faced with so many bad choices, and provided mostly very bad advice, JFK twisted and turned and was creative enough to make a good enough choice possible, and then take it.
The Biden Admin did none of that, and in their flat refusal to discuss it at all they were the bad guys from that example.
“which tribe?’
Sado-voyeurs.
You have to stop prejudicing the case with Washington constructions. This is essentially a Russian civil war in which Washington interjected itself directly in ’14 making it a Neocon war against Russia using Ukro-nazis with US training, supply, intel, ….
Go Man. You are right.
I don’t “have” to do anything.
I’m at least as critical of “Washington constructions” as anyone else.
The difference between you and me is that I’m equally critical of “Moscow constructions,” “Delhi constructions,” “Beijing constructions,” “Paris constructions,” “Tel Aviv constructions,” etc.
Put the case objctively before an unbiased panel of judges, the Russia side wins.
Jerusalem constructions
Yes, I do treat “Palestinian constructions” the same as others. Thanks for bringing that up.
Ah, now he’s against the Palestinians! Which is no doubt why he comes in and criticizes everyone who mentions Israel.
Thanks for the periodic reminder that reading English for comprehension isn’t your strong suit.
Richard, Thomas is NOT anti-Palestinian, not by a long shot!
Euphemisms, generalization equal disconnection. “Paris constructions,” like the Eiffel Tower….??????
Except we never hear about them – just about how Russia is evil for attacking Ukraine. You expose yourself with every trollish remark in these threads.
You’ve never, ever, ever, heard from me that “Russia is evil for attacking Ukraine.” You making up shit and pretending I said it isn’t the same thing as me saying it.
The Russian regime is evil, though — as is the Ukrainian regime, the US regime, et al. And all of them bear responsibililty for their decisions leading up to, and during, this war.
“frozen”? hmm.. are you aware of the concentration of Ukrainian troops on the demarcation line since the end of January? Do you know that the Ukrainian side began demining in early February? do you know about the number of shelling from 19 to 23 February (1000-2000 shells per day)? Do you know that the Russian Defense Ministry gathered foreign military attachés in January and warned that in the event of an attempt to resolve the issue with the Donbass by force, Russia would take the most stringent measures? attempt made – action taken.
I am sure that if this information were available to you, then you would not hang noodles on your ears about the fact that “Russia has chosen to escalate the frozen conflict.”
If the US did that, I’d expect the Russians to give every one of the the same treatment the US gave the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade.
Anarchists believe in peace and mutual cooperation. You sound more and more like a Wash. neo-con. Sad that people are losing all reason today, not only over the war, but in the streets as well. Blood lust is a form of hysteria that affects males and called ‘war fever.’ Chill, Tom!
I guess the question is whether you don’t bother to read what I write before responding to it as if I wrote the opposite, or whether you do read what I write and think that today is Opposite Day.
Gee. I read it and remove the weasel words and it’s clear.
Indeed, weasel words are Knapp’s style. Good call.
“. . .if the Russians keep this shit up and I was in charge in DC, I think I’d open a US embassy annex in every major city in Ukraine and announce that any “attack on US soil” — so much as a fragment of shrapnel in the exterior wall — would serve as the pretext for nuclear “retaliation,” just to see how Medvedev likes getting what he’s dishing out.” Sounds pretty provocative to me. Think you may getting war fever also? It’s a male malady that affects women and children also.
Doesn’t effect this male. But I guess I got inoculated during Viet Nam.
Is it all men’s fault? are you sure? Most EU defense ministers are women, and they support the supply of weapons to Ukraine and “war to the last Ukrainian.” Talita do Valli, who was a sniper, is also a woman. she went to fight in Ukraine and was torn apart by a Russian shell. Ursula Von Der Leyne constantly calls for war until victory. Liz Truss is also constantly screaming about the war. Women in politics constantly call for war and blood. you do not notice how you turned into a chauvinist?
If women were peacemakers they wouldn’t rise through the bureaucratic ranks, and most wouldn’t get elected either. Sadly, most of the policy-makers/decision makers try to out-macho the wannabe Rambo-type males.
macho? Rambo? what are you speaking about??? all wars, always, were fought only for money and power (as a means of obtaining the same money). when money had not yet been invented, for the equivalent of money – slaves, gold and silver, land with peasants. we’re talking about serious people, not pimply elementary school kids who love spiderman and captain america. these people are interested in billions of dollars and it has nothing to do with gender, gender identity, skin color or shooting to be like Rambo. those who want to be like Rambo are consumables that are manipulated by those who rob and steal billions.
Yes – macho and Rambo types. That’s what I said!
ha ha ha🤣 it will really be a disservice to the Ukrainian military. they will not be able to use American diplomatic installations as gun emplacements and they will not be able to use the civilian population as human shields. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will be grateful to you and you will probably even be awarded some kind of order for such a contribution to saving the civilian population. 😎👍
I have an even more creative suggestion! 🙂 you can recruit volunteers in the USA, give them diplomatic status and order the Ukrainians to tie them to tanks and guns as protection and use the infantry as shelter from bullets 😆
PS
for reference, ukraine is constantly shelling villages in the bryansk region. if you do not know, then the Bryansk region is the territory of Russia. and not only from mortars, but also from cluster munitions with anti-personnel mines. read what an anti-personnel mine “petal” is.
PS PS
do not listen to what Medvedev is talking about. he doesn’t decide anything. he really wants to be like Kadyrov, but he is not good at it. Kadyrov’s words = deeds, Medvedev’s only words.
You’re being inconsistent today. So, answer this question, please: do you think Wash. should stay out of the conflict 100% or like you wrote, “I’d open a US embassy annex. . .” That does imply provocation which is the current Wash. policy.
Nice partial quote there. You left out the part specifying that that was “if I was in charge in DC,” i.e. if I was a warmongering idiot operating on the same arrogance as the US and Russian regimes.
The intent was pretty clear Knapp.
Good. Glad that’s settled.
See? Nothing but smart-ass remarks from Knapp. That’s all he’s capable of. He’s incapable of making a reasoned argument because he’s locked into his personal bias against Russia.
God damn man, Knapp cuts down every fucking government and every fucking state on the planet.
Yes, Thomas is an equal opportunity disser 😉
See? More proof positive that Knapp supports the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine. He keeps claiming he doesn’t, but then he comes up with this nonsense and explains it away by saying it’s just a “thought experiment”.
Bullshit.
Also, what does he think the US and EU are is doing? The US and the EU launch a sanctions war on Russia, and when Russia does some minor retaliation, they scream in rage, as if Russia is not allowed to retaliate. Mercouris made this point in his videos recently. It also applies to the continued efforts by the neocons and NATO to use Ukraine against Russia which is why this SMO started in the first place.
Knapp is a grumpy American who doesn’t like to see his country trashed by Americans themselves so he displaces that and accuses the Russians of being the cause. Nothing but a mass of cognitive dissonance and projection.
Lie about me all you want, you lying sack of crap. When you’re done lying, the lies will still be lies.
I don’t give a tinker’s damn about the regime in Ukraine. If I saw Volodomyr Zelenskyy rolling around in the street on fire, I wouldn’t piss on him to put it out.
If the Russians take all of Ukraine, it won’t be any skin off my nose. Likewise, if Zelensky suddenly squats and defecates a million super-soldiers and takes Moscow, that won’t bother me either. And each event is about as likely as the other.
Talk about lying. Every word in that paragraph is a lie. And everyone can see through your bullshit.
Speak for yourself dude.
Another idiotic idea.
What’s going on with you Knapp. Russia made an attempt to negotiate like they did in the 62 “missile crisis” when the U.S. objected to Russian nukes in Cuba. A deal was worked out without a shot being fired. Why did Stoltenburg slam the door to negotiating and thereby limit or close Russian ability to peacefully get safety from a decapitating first strike. There is also he issue of ongoing hostilities against the Russian speakers in the East and other fallout from the 2014 Obama administration coup. There was some war there going on ever since that coup, and to say Russia started it when they invaded is moot in light of the U.S. coup and the fighting it started that still continues. That coup per se was war.
Little mention is made of the separatists who were incinerated by the Azov Battalion. I believe 43 perished. Then came the shelling of Donbas. Eight years of shelling.
“and to say Russia started it when they invaded is moot in light of the U.S. coup and the fighting it started that still continues”
True, which is why I never said any such thing.
If it’s ‘Ukraine,’ then Israel is Palestine, and America is American Indian; I could make a long list, but you get the idea, don’t you??
Well said Lily!
We are ruled by sociopaths. Crimea is Russia.
I would argue that we are ruled by psychopaths.
Russia recently expressed that it cannot rule out reclaiming Alaska. Well, there is a long list of Russian populations in neighboring countries as well as abroad, many of which fall under the same criteria to support invasion just like Ukraine such as the Neo Nazi one. Russia will be very busy the next 200 years.
Ukraine 14,273,670 29.6% 2001
Belarus 6,672,964 70.2% 2009
Uzbekistan 720,300 2.1% 2021
Kazakhstan 3,793,800 21.2% 2017
Georgia 45,920 1.2% 2014 [6]
Azerbaijan 122,449 1.4% 2009
Lithuania 218,383 7.2% 2011
Moldova 264,162 9.7% 2014
Latvia 698,757 33.8% 2011
Kyrgyzstan 482,200 8.9% 2009
Tajikistan 40,598 0.5% 2012
Armenia 23,484 0.8% 2011
Turkmenistan 305,802 5.4% 2016
Estonia 383,118 29.6% 2011
Australia 44,058 0.2% 2012
Austria 8,446 0.1% 2001
Canada 112,150 0.3% 2011
Croatia 1,592 0.04% 2011
Cyprus 20,984 2.5% 2011
Czech Republic 31,622 0.3% 2011
Finland 77,177 1.4% 2017
Germany 2,257,000 2.8% 2010
Guinea-Bissau 2,104 0.14% 2009
Israel 1,155,960 15% 2011
Mauritius 40 0.003% 2011
New Zealand 7,896 0.2% 2006
Norway 16,833 0.3% 2012
Poland 21,916 0.1% 2011
Romania 23,487 0.11% 2011
Serbia 3,179 0.04% 2011
Slovakia 1,866 0.03% 2001
United States 900,205 0.3% 2016
yes, what happened to Ukraine can happen to any country in which the United States has stuck its dirty paws. there are a lot of examples of such countries… Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and the most recent – Ukraine.
but there are also positive examples. in Turkey, the United States got a hand and Russia has no reason to fight with Turkey. all issues are resolved diplomatically. in Belarus, the United States got a hand and Belarus is now a union state with Russia.
Russia has already captured or destroyed – or bought from corrupt Ukrainians – four of the eight HIMARS sent to Ukraine so far. How long will the rest last? Ukraine had hundreds of similar MLRS systems when the war started – and they’ve lost hundreds. Also, Crimea is very well protected by a multi-layered air defense system – including Pantsir gun-missile systems that apparently are effective at shooting down HIMARS missiles.
Well they can try to carry out such a US order but Russia has made it crystal clear that if they do, US/ Pentagram command centers like the one with 200+ US agents running this war in Lvov will be instantly vaporized by a supersonic missile.
Or as former Russian president Medvedev said, any decision center anywhere in or out of the rump ukraine. The American fascist regime is out of options, they’re scraping the bottom of the barrel here and it’s getting increasingly dangerous.
The war is lost. The super corrupt ukraine has since it “independence” 30 years ago and billions of US tax money and training, based it’s nationality on one thing only: hatred of Russia. They havn’t built anything, (not even ONE bridge, let alone repair the existing ones) no infrastructure or industry, they tear down. Such states are not viable they’re train crashes in the making and the US couldn’t care less but encourage them to carry on fulfilling their suicide mission.
https://www.indianpunchline.com/russia-iran-relations-take-a-quantum-leap/
Russia-Iran relations take a quantum leap. Authored by MK Bhadrakumar.
It’s not Russia that is carping as far as I can tell, but the U.S. & NATO who are doing all the screaming. Makes me wonder just who is running this war in Washington. Who is conducting NATO strategy? Stoltenburg seems to cherry pick the most offensive possible contributions to the dialog like pointing the Z-Man toward recovering Crimea. Kinda makes one think he must want to escalate this unfortunate episode to “full thermonuclear mode” quickly and decisively. Russia won’t be in any “full-on open war” until their hypersonic nuclear missiles are powering into NATO & Ukraine capitols. So far Russian hits have all been of the gloves on variety.
Who? Pure neocons, Kagans and their crowd.
The entire US State department, the MIC, massive foreign affair lobbyists, both political parties leadership, the media, the Education Industrial Complex and weak minded Americans who cannot think.
Oh yeah. It keeps occurring to me that Nuland must have her hand on the policy levers, frantically trying to pry Crimea away from Russia and back to Ukraine to save her diplomatic reputation of being the ONE who traded a weak leader for Russias Home Base for their fleet.
Sounds like “Toria talk”. Hubris preceds a great fall….. And this seeming show down could produce a looser, perhaps a TWO TIME one…
https://www.rt.com/russia/559188-kiev-names-condition-peace/
Kiev names condition for peace talks with Moscow.
Does Zelensky and his co-horts have a vision for Ukraine beyond mass depopulation via mass emigration and those fighting for Ukraine?
The euro will self-destruct within a year. Ukraine’s hyrvnia isn’t far behind.
The world is looking for what could pass as a positive outcome but Kiev isn’t inclined toward that.
Then I suppose Russia can use submarine launched cruise missiles against Norfolk, Virginia’s big Navy base? They are comparable.
And supply Iran with anti ship missiles.
Let’s hope that Russia confines its activities to Europe. And America keeps its out of Europe. I know this is crazy talk.. The US. believes its divine mission is to control the whole world with its hoped for full spectrum dominance that seems not to have materialized. But, the craziest part of this whole Ukraine fiasco, IS! that the weaker the U.S. gets, the tougher they talk. Even the NATO Gnomes seem to have been afflicted with this same reverse bias. Every one in the world who holds any position of power &, or influence knows knows the U.S. has fallen behind. Does the U.S. think that Russia & China don’t know. One thing I can say is Zelensky seems to believe that the U.S. is the top dog, or does he just think no other country can challenge it. Let me be clear, I don’t think that the U.S. cannot catch up, but I just think its got too much baggage to easily sprint forward to parity. Right Now… Its Russia and China who are the most powerful and influencial countries in the world.
Putin had every right to stop the premeditated NATO/US threat on their doorstep..those who say otherwise are just uniformed and believe the perpetual lies coming from the US, and EU propaganda. Why should Russia tolerate this threat? Would the US allow Mexico to host Russian high tech weapons, and allow Russia to host a base there…NO.
Crimea is Ukraine as agreed by a treaty in 1999 signed by Russia.
That was a forged signature – let’s just see that signature you speak of.
US Implies US Can Use HIMARS Against Russian Targets in Crimea
Suck it, Knapp!
From over at MoA:
Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the
progress of a special military operation on the territory of Ukraine
(18072022)
High-precision air-launched missiles in the village of Konstantinovka of
the Donetsk People’s Republic hit the temporary deployment point of
mercenaries of the so-called Ukrainian “foreign legion”. Up to 250
foreign fighters, seven armored vehicles, as well as 12 special vehicles
were destroyed.
As a result of a strike with high-precision long-range air-based
weapons at the temporary deployment point of the battalion of the 118th
Brigade of the Territorial Defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the
village of Vitovo, Cherkasy region, up to 60 nationalists, two multiple
rocket launcher combat vehicles and four artillery pieces were
destroyed.
In the area of the Udachnoye railway station of the Donetsk People’s
Republic, more than 10 Ukrainian installations of multiple rocket
launchers “Grad”, as well as eight units of armored vehicles, were
destroyed by a strike at the place of unloading echelons with military
equipment.
Also, in the area of the settlement of New Donbass of the Donetsk
People’s Republic, as a result of a rocket artillery strike on the AFU
field airfield, two Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters located there were
destroyed and two more helicopters received significant damage.
As part of the counter-battery struggle, two batteries of multiple
launch rocket systems “Hurricane” in the Predtechino area, three
platoons of MLRS “Grad”, 14 artillery platoons of howitzers “Hyacinth-B”
and D-30 guns in the areas of the settlements of Seversk,
Verkhnekamenskoye, Serebryanka, Dronovka and Zvanovka of the Donetsk People’s Republic were hit.
Operational-tactical and army aviation, rocket troops and artillery
hit 14 control points during the day, including the 28th mechanized
Brigade in the area of Nikolaev, the 60th Infantry Brigade in the area
of Novoaleksandrovka, Zaporozhye region and the 15th battalion of the
58th Motorized Infantry Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the
village of Pokrovskoye, Donetsk People’s Republic, as well as manpower
and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 286 districts.
Destroyed: a Buk-M1 self-propelled firing installation in the Kramatorsk area of the Donetsk People’s Republic, three warehouses with rocket and artillery weapons and a fuel depot in the Novoaleksandrovka area of the Zaporozhye region.
Six Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down by Russian air
defense means during the day in the areas of the settlements of
Peschanoe, Chervonyi Oskol, Liptsy, Kharkiv region, Korsun, Donetsk
People’s Republic and Novokamenka, Kherson region. Two shells of the
Hurricane multiple launch rocket system were also intercepted in the
area of the settlement of Stakhanov of the Luhansk People’s Republic.
In total, since the beginning of the special military operation, 257 aircraft, 142 helicopters, 1564 unmanned aerial vehicles, 356 anti-aircraft missile systems, 4099 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 759 multiple rocket launchers, 3157 field artillery and mortars, as well as 4392 units of special military vehicles have been destroyed.
Posted by: Summary18072022 | Jul 18 2022 18:22 utc | 32
Suck what? Am I supposed to take issue with any of that?
Could the Russians be any clearer on this? Use US/NATO weapons directly against Russia then the US/NATO bares the responsibility for very bad things that WILL happen.
According to US officials US & European allies will not be able to maintain current levels of support for Kiev for a prolonged period of time. The tactics of attritional military operations in Ukraine are totally confusing Pentagon analysts.
I have said from the day the SMO started that Russia will grind out NATO weapons, economy and people in the West. It would appear that the main goal of the operation is not at all the surrender of Kyiv. It is the destruction of the Western powers and we are to ignorant, stupid and malevolent to see it.
The Russian Federation through attrition is most effectively implementing the process of dissarm and demilitarisation not only of Ukraine, but of the entire collective West, bleeding out the West and if we continue an economic collapse is coming.
The sanctions war is hurting the American economy. At the same time, the United States needs to fully support Ukraine, even paying the salaries of the entire state apparatus, and soon it will also need to support the declining economy of the European Union.
Russia in Ukraine is fighting for the Russian world which includes the Ukraine. Once you see this geopolitical perspective you can understand the war in the Donbass. A war Russia is going to win.
Did this article break the record for the most comments?