On Wednesday, Russia said it took control of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson as fighting continued across Ukraine for the seventh day. It marks the first major city Russia has taken over since its invasion began.
Kherson has a population of over 250,000 and is located on the Dnieper River, where it meets the Black Sea. Ukraine initially denied that Russia took control of the city, but the mayor of Kherson appeared to confirm Moscow’s claim in a Facebook post.
Mayor Igor Kolykhayev said there were “armed visitors” at the city’s council building on Wednesday. “We have shown that we are working to secure the city and are trying to eliminate the consequences of the invasion … We don’t have Ukrainian Armed Forces in the city, only civilians,” Kolykhayev said.
Meanwhile, heavy shelling was reported in the southeastern city of Mariupol. The city’s deputy mayor said hundreds could be dead after 15 hours of intense shelling. For their part, Russia accused Ukraine’s “nationalist” forces of blocking civilians from leaving Ukrainian cities, including Mariupol.
Ukrainian officials said Russian shelling killed 21 people in the northeastern city of Kharviv and four people in the western city of Zhytomyr. At this time, casualty numbers are still unconfirmed, and both sides are reporting vastly different military death tolls.
Mariupol is one if those cities where Nazi battalions comigted many crimes against populstion that is majority Russian. Mariupol will fall, the question is how to protect civilians. Kherson is also majority Russian, so is Kharkov.
The real question is what will happen in Odessa. There, a simmering resentment against right wingers has been present since the 2014 when anti-coup protesters were attacked by Nazi brigade, and in trying to escale many lrkestors hid in a building. The Nazis chainned the entrance and lut the building in fire. Hundreds perished.
Kherson by the way of history, is the place where Prince Vladimir of Kievan Rus accepted Christianity for Russia in 10th century.
Yup, all those cities will be under Russian control before too much longer. Kiev is encircled except for the humanitarian corridor to the West. The 12-19 Ukrainian brigades are almost encircled in eastern Ukraine – when that’s completed, they will have to surrender or be annihilated – that’s 50-100,000 troops, between 30-50% of Ukrainian forces and most of the Ukrainian armor and heavy artillery. They are thoroughly “dug in”, however. This might force Russia to use its heavy thermobaric flamethrower artillery, the TOS-1. That’s a bad way to die – not that there’s any good way.
This is an antiwar site. Why are you cheer leading for a preemptive war of aggression?
Russia will overwhelm the Ukrainian army. But the occupation and resistance will bleed Russia to death. Zelenskyy’s government has more support and legitimacy now than he did before the Russian invasion.
After the Donbass declared its independence the Ukrainians began attacking them. The Russians tried for 8 years to resolve the situation in the Donbass diplomatically. They initiated the Minsk talks which resulted in the Minsk I and II agreements. The Russians complained to the UN repeatedly that Kiev was violating the Minsk agreements but were ignored. They filed a lawsuit last year with the UN complaining about the violations but it was dismissed. They said it was a red line for them if Ukraine became a NATO member and was allowed to have nukes. They wanted a written guarantee from the US that this would not happen but were ignored.
Their fault was their foolish belief that the problem could be resolved nonviolently. They wasted 8 years on useless diplomacy. This allowed the CIA to arm and train neo-nazi groups like the Azov Battalion. They should have attacked in 2014 and nipped it in the bud. Now, they will likely be faced with a guerilla war to root them out.
“Now, they will likely be faced with a guerilla war to root them out.”
A guerrilla war that Russia will eventually lose but only after scores of armed attacks and casualties in Russia and the Ukraine.
I agree with you that Ukraine acted in bad faith and Russia acted in good faith. US and NATO and the Ukrainian right wing are to blame. But going to war is only going to hurt Russia and Ukraine, isolate Russia and start the guerrilla war you predict which Russia can’t win.
Russia is in a bad situation. But Putin made a terrible mistake launching a preemptive war of choice. The Russian people will regret that choice which is galvanizing the Ukrainian resistance and isolating Russia as a pariah state.
Putin pleaded for many years for an end to NATO expansion and the placing of Nukes in countries bordering Russia. Peace could have been had, and it would have been so simple, but the U.S., which is the boss of NATO, said “No.”
I agree that the US and NATO are to blame for the situation. But how does that justify a preemptive war of choice? Putin’s war made a bad situation worse. There is no justification for starting a war except to end holocaust level genocide. As bad as things were for Russians in the Ukraine, it had not reached holocaust levels.
I agree with Alexander Mercouris that the situation in Donbass did not reach the level of genocide at this point. But it did reach the level of “ethnic cleansing” and could well have reached the level of “genocide” at some point had it been allowed to continue. But that wasn’t even Russia’s main problem. The main problem was NATO expansion into Ukraine – and not just by Ukraine getting NATO membership. Russia noted that Ukraine was being “upgraded” to a “NATO partner”, which for Russia is as bad as being a NATO “member.”
Like bush in iraq?
OK Skywalker, I guess from your line of thinking there is no justification for anyone to go to war. They should just take whatever is dealt out to them and turn the other cheek.
The only justifications for war are self defense in response to a military attack or response to a holocaust level genocide like the Nazi Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide.
I don’t believe in turning the other cheek. Russia is a great power with plenty of options to pressure, punish, or persuade Ukraine without invading. But the response must be proportionate to the provocation.
I am not “cheerleading”. I am analyzing the situation. I also agree that Russia had no choice but to do what it did. That is not “cheerleading” – it is recognizing a correct course of action by the party involved. As for whether that is a bad decision, what was your plan to solve Russia’s problems with Ukraine and NATO?
We are tslking Ukraine here. A deeply divded country. Yanukovich was the ladt president that was voted in accross the regions. After coup — the country split. Oce power is given to the vocal minority from Galicia, and Russian minority lost all rights, the abuses of Russian majority regions started in earnest. But something happened to an average Ukrsinian of Ortodox faith. They learned that as Orthodox Chrstians they were inferior Ukrainians to Galicia chatolics. So, over time, Orthodox Russians and Ukranians found a common cause against Neo-Nazis. Hope you understand this is not an exaggeration. The Nazi culture never went away. It was suppresed in Soviet days, and many emigrated to Argentina. In fact current Pope in his younger days as a prieest, was assigned to work with them, and had many acquaintances in Ukraine. During Cols War United Ststes and Europe threw a life-line to the communities that nursed grievances agaist Soviet Union, as being the guilty party to destroy Hitler, and planted the flag on Reichstag. So, the money poured in — and the defeated and angry became ardent anti-Communists. Such forces have been created in all Baltic states. all East and Central European states and Balkans (Croatia, Saranevo Moslems and Albanians, Romanians, and Bulgarians.
It is worth understanding this, to understtands what happened after the fall of Soviet Union. Almost overnight, these well pampered anti-communists became anti-Russian. It dovetailed niicely wih NATO expansion. Without an exception, these anti-Communists were recruited in important positions in the new independent states. And the abuse of Russian minorites started overnight. Baltic states were famous for oppression, banning minority publications, etc.
But the Ukrainian, well organized and funded grouops and their leaders finally were able to raise thei heads during Maidan coup. Clearly with foreign funding — they were the stars of the end stage coup., when they burst into the Paisment with the list of laws to pass under the threat of the gun.
They wielded considersble power un lost coup administration. The orgies of Nazi torch parades, and war criminal pictures on banners.
How was Zelenski elected? Being Jewish, Russian speaker — he did not get Nazi vote but he got 73% of vote -Ukrainian Orthodox and Russian. He promised resolving the crisis by working with Russia. After elections, he was changed man. Nazis took control and lufe became worse. People were scared to say anything for fesr of reprisal.
US and NATO want us to bueve that the whole country is unified against Russian aggression. Lets quantify this – 73% that voted for a presumably Russia friendly president are the ine who do not mingmd devil from hell to get the Nazi btigadez kut of their life,
War is never a goid thing – but in our world still incapable of slllving problems — it is the only option.
The money our congress id dedicating for Ukraine is going into paying for private armies and weapins,
It seems to me that Europe, once you remove the veneer if modernity is the same ine that produced Napoleon, Kaiser and Hitler, all excited and saluvating to vet the space and riches of Russia. And kur Administrations from Clinton onwards has been enabler of this development.
War — if we are lucky. Will end in Ukraine. But we are already oushing Belarus into it.
If we are not lucky. this will expand iinto wider war.
We need to listen to the worlds opinion which is by far more comllec than a throw-away vote in UN GA,
Many countries will not impose sanctions and will trade as usual, and we cannot punisn all of those without being ridiculous.
This is just a partial list : Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama. Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina in our hemisphere, Biggest ones in Asia — Korea, China, India, Pakistan, Iran. Turkey. In Africa, Evypt and many otbers. List is growing,
Not a good ib situstion,
Zelenskyy is leading an illegitimate neo-Nazi anti-Russian government.
US/NATO threats to Russia’s legitimate security interest is the root cause of the conflict.
But none of this justifies a preemptive war that will be a disaster for Putin and the Russian and Ukrainian people. Preemptive war is not a legitimate response to a security threat. In the long run preemptive war blows back against the aggressor. Putin should have learned from the experiences of the USSR in Afghanistan or the US in Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam. Russia can defeat the Ukrainian military. But the occupation and resistance will bleed Russia to death and be Putin’s legacy.
I cannot agree more, wars are the failure of human beings to communicate,
We have not reached this point yet. And we will not until the prevailing mindset in the West is the one of superiority . This blinds West to the concerns others have sbout their security.
What remains? Talking and talking into thin air, not being heard. Ridiculed. The most imminent threat to Russia was the assault of Ukranian army on two breakaway provinces, snd Russia itself, as it was a thin line of separation.
I recall the laugh in Russia’s face as it promited for eight years the imenentation of Minsk Agreement. France and Germany, the co-signers, in the last Normandy forum, showed a clear lack of interest. Why would Russia alone plead for peace.
Militarization of Ukraine was not acceptable to NATO. As more gasoline was poured onto flames.
Russia’s military doctrine stipulates that in the future it will not allow wars on its territory. Which makes oreemptive wars only choice to stop
NATO.
I am not sure I am seeing any ray of hope that NATO would change its mind on moving missile launchers to Russian borders.
Another factor in Ukraine is the population. Since 2014 coup, the country was split in half. The new regime started cultural revolution against not only Russians but also Christian Orthodox Ukrainians and othe minoritiex. Hungary regularly complained,
This Humpty. Dumpty cannot be put together again. In the Soutb and East, Russia has friendly populstion, but the government and military are all outsiders, and it is not easy to dislidge them without risking populstion casuslties. This is affecting the tactics.
Our media is portraying this unified country against Russia — bu it is a latghable nonsense.
NATO wanted Ukrsine for nefarious reasons. And this is why Russia. had to respond. Talking and talking. resulted in NATO being convinced that Russia can be in fact militarily conquered by the sheer closeness to its major European centers.
Nobody is that stupid to want a war being visited upon anyone. But extreme positions of one side makes it impossible for another to avoid,
We are reaching a level of tensions that sre dangerous. We should not be complacent thinking thst this is Russiia-Uktaine war. It is Russia-NATO war. And we are not safe. Rusdia has an advantage today in sophisticated weaponry, and we know our missile defense is not what it should be. I would not advise cockiness.
So, sorry for Ukraine, this is whar EU dreams brought them since 2014. But my greatest interest is — looking out for the wellbeing of our country.
I can understand and sympathize with other people’s problems, but realy care about my own. And the money now being spent with great abandon to help Pentagon help Ukraine is money thrown away.
So in other words you are saying that Putin should have backed down, been an appeaser and another Neville Chamberlain?
Russia will not “occupy” Ukraine. It will “re-orient” Ukraine’s government, then go home. Russia was in Afghanistan – been there, done that. They are well aware of the problems of “occupation” and will not fall into that trap. Wait and see before declaring this operation a “disaster” for Russia.
War is hell end it now.
Sure will do, the war will end when the last Nazi is dead, and the last of the regular Ukro army surrenders.
Don’t remember the US ever ending the Iraq hostilities until their (initial) goals were achieved
The US is the main aggressor state in the world. But US aggression does not justify Russian aggression. The law of blowback applies to Russia just as it applied to the US and the USSR. Putin has not been appointed the international agent of de-Nazification any more than Bush or Obama were authorized to bring western democracy and women’s liberation to the Muslim world.
“If you want peace work for justice.”
Again, what’s your plan to solve Russia’s problems with Ukraine and NATO?
Russia had options. Russia is a major power. Ukraine would face catastrophic disproportionate consequences if it ever attacked Russia. NATO could not shield Ukraine from those consequences. And Russia could have continued to do just what it did before it invaded – mass over 100,000 troops on Ukraine’s border – scaring the world until enough Ukrainians came to their senses and overthrew Zelenskyy and his cronies.
Russia and Belarus could have sealed their borders with Ukraine and banned Ukraine from their airspace. Russia could even have imposed a naval blockade.
Finally, Russia could have played the China card. Ukraine is part of the Belt and Road project. But now even China and Iran abstained on the UN resolution condemning Russia. Now Russia is standing alone with only Belarus, North Korea, Syria and Eritrea in its corner.
Ironically, if Russia severs the Donbas from Ukraine, the shift in demographics will be even more favorable to the neo-facists who are already gaining support from previously anti-fascist Ukrainian patriots.
Ukraine was severed from greater Russia by the 13th century Mongol conquest. Ever since Russian chauvinists, including Putin, have regarded Ukrainians and Russians as one people. However, millions of Ukrainians have come to regard themselves as a separate nation, especially in the east. There will be no pro-Russian regime without an occupation. The occupation will engender resistance. In the end, the resistance will prevail.
Putin succumbed to the seductive allure of a shock and awe military solution. But those solutions are not quick fixes. They are quagmires. As Putin will learn in the coming months.
It’s tough being the big guy when a little guy throws his drink in your face. But if you clobber the little guy no one in the saloon will drink with you again. Reverend Mother Helen Gaius Mohiam would have flunked Putin on the Gom Jabbar test.
Not the first one. They liberated Melitopol earlier.
Lots of “antiwar” people here cheering on the Russians
self-defense against NATO
There are plenty of people all over who are “anti-war” except when they’re fantasizing about some regime they dislike getting whacked, or some regime they’ve idealized does the whacking. Then “anti-war” goes right out the window.
That phenomenon is not unique to this site. Large numbers of Democrats and Republicans are “anti-war” when the other party is in control, and turn “pro-war” the instant their guy is in office.
So true – both deep state apparatchiks.
The Russian Education Ministry scheduled a video lesson to be shown in schools nationwide Thursday that described the war against Ukraine as a “liberation mission.”
Russian lawmakers proposed law that would get someone 15 years in jail for sharing “false information” about the war.
OVD-Info, an activist group that tallies arrests, has counted at least 7,359 Russians detained during seven days of protests in scores of cities across the country.
Having sex, to end the war?…. I just saw an article on this but I lost it…
Boy, if having sex could end a war, we should all get busy, immediately.
ha!
“Imagine this scenario of aggression. Russia has established something called SATA. (Surround America Together Alliance) with the Bahamas, Cuba, Canada and all of Central America. Article 5 of SATA says if one goes to war, they all go to war. Putin is trying to get Mexico to join. He orchestrated a coup there in 2014 and installed a puppet dictator who helps enrich Putin through Putin’s crack head son. He keeps assuring Mexico they will join SATA one day, even though the other countries would not approve the vote and they don’t meet some minimum requirements. Other politicians in the duma send their kids to be on boards of Mexican companies to collect paychecks of $50,000 per month. Russia keeps sending weapons to Mexico who has a neo-Nazi force of nationalists near the border who take shots at English speaking American separatists who would prefer to be part of the United States. Cease fires are broken 2000 times over 8 years, leaving 14,000 dead in the conflict. The U.S. has taken a patient stance, trying to reason with the Mexican coke-head dictator but he keeps accepting SATA weapons and money. Last week the Mexican dictator said he doesn’t just want SATA membership, he wants Russian nukes in his country aimed at the United States. That was the final straw. Tuesday the U.S. launched air strikes across Mexico and declared those English speaking American states as independent republics.”
Kinda what happened with Texas. Wasn’t right then and still wouldn’t be right now. Preemptive war is wrong.
War is the third worst thing humans do.
Genocide is the second worst thing.
Nuclear war is the worst thing . Fortunately no nuclear state has ever nuked another nuclear armed state.
Fine. You’ve signaled your virtue. Now see if you can find a bus back to reality – where virtue doesn’t matter.
No but the U.S. Nuked Japan twice.
Brilliant analogy!
Yes, great!
I still say, though, that Russia should have intervened eight years ago. All those long years trying to make peace were wasted because the United States in its arrogance, has to project its power over any potential competitor.
P.S. The Russians won World War two. The United States lost the Korean war; then they lost the war in Vietnam, then Afghanistan …
And now this?
Back in the 1980’s I read the book, “People of the Lie” by M. Scott Peck, a renowned psychiatrist who wrote many books, the most famous being “The Road Less Travelled.”
In “People of the Lie” he deals with something most psychiatrists don’t want to touch. He deals with evil. One of the things I learned from his book, is that Evil People are very adept at putting other people in Catch 22s or double binds. “You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.”
That is exactly what the U.S. State Department has done to Putin. They boxed him in and forced his hand. If Putin fights, he’s another Hitler, and if he submits he’s a Russian Neville Chamberlain. Neither choice is good.
Americans should hang their heads in shame at what our country has done, not only to the Ukrainians, but to people all across the globe.
There is an elephant in the room.
Assuming that the goal is to minimize Ukrainian casualties and the destruction of their infrastructure, if Ukraine actually thinks they have a chance of winning, it makes sense to do everything possible to oppose Russia’s military.
But if Ukraine realizes that they cannot possibly win, it makes sense to surrender as quickly as possible. Does Zelenskyy actually think Ukraine can repel Russia? Does anybody else think that’s a realistic possibility?
If I can believe what I’m hearing, he could end the hostilities today by declaring that Ukraine will be neutral and will never again seek to join NATO. From Ukraine’s perspective, that doesn’t seem like a big ask at this point.
Perhaps my view is too simplistic.
The Ukrainian military will be obliterated. But the Ukrainian resistance will prove unstoppable. That is the law of blowback or disproportionate warfare. History has repeatedly shown that when a country is invaded the population usually unites against the foreign invaders. Lots of Ukrainians who two weeks ago were against the Zelensky regime are now part of the resistance to the Russian invasion. As in Afghanistan and Vietnam, Ukrianians are pissed off at the foreign invaders, determined to get their country back, and eventually they will win.
Regime change wars are not only wrong, they are stupid.
I see your point. But I don’t think Putin intends or desires to occupy Ukraine indefinitely. I assume he intends to get rid of the people who overturned the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and then impose a new constitution that would formalize his demands. Ukraine’s constitution would declare itself to be neutral and would formally prohibit inclusion in NATO.
I also assume that he has no worries about a resistance movement in Crimea and Donbass.
I am convinced that the people in both the historically Russian areas (Donbass and Crimea) and the historically non-Russian areas of Ukraine would never have sought to be included in NATO of their own accord. (That kind of talk was not prominent until AFTER the Euromaidan coup.) I am not convinced that a majority of the people of Ukraine desire to be part of the European Union. I’m not even convinced that Europe has any keen interest in bringing Ukraine into the EU. Given that the EU took only 1 day to reject Zelenskyy’s bit to join the EU by bypassing the usual vetting process, it seems apparent to me that Brussels does not want to be caught between the US and Russia over Ukraine.
If Russia is no longer perceived as an occupying force, I consider it possible that what the US did in Germany and Japan could be repeated by Russia in Ukraine.
Talk about a win nothing war!
We all lose…
Putin most of all!
No. Putin will be disgraced but he will continue to live the good life. The biggest losers will be the Ukrainian and Russian people who have died and will die or be maimed in this unnecessary war of choice.
Putin loses everything-power-history-his ill-gotten gains-his dream of reestablishing the soviet union and its power!
Yeah, maybe Putin could move to the Presidio in San Francisco and join Gorbachev in a nice retirement.
Presidio of Monterey was a foreign language school for military. Maybe our warmongers should learn a second language.