In the wake of pro-Trump demonstrators entering the US Capitol Building, Joe Biden made it clear that he views the incident as “terrorism” in comments on Thursday.
“Don’t dare call them protesters,” he said from Wilmington, Deleware. “They were a riotous mob. Insurrectionists. Domestic terrorists. It’s that basic. It’s that simple.”
As The Wall Street Journal reported in November, Biden has said he plans to make a priority of passing a law against domestic terrorism. The Capitol incident will likely speed up the process of crafting domestic terror-related legislation that could have grave implications for the civil liberties of Americans.
Biden’s transition team is also reportedly considering new “Red Flag” laws that would give law enforcement more authority to confiscate firearms.
Biden voted for the 2001 Patriot Act, which greatly expanded the federal government’s surveillance capabilities. He has said the Patriot Act was modeled on a terrorism bill he wrote after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, that was never signed into law.
“I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing,” he was quoted as saying by the New Republic in 2001. “And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill,” he said, referring to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft.
In a 2002 Senate hearing on FBI counterterrorism efforts, Biden again took credit for creating the Patriot Act. “Civil libertarians were opposed to it,” he said. “Right after 1994, and you can ask the attorney general this, because I got a call when he introduced the Patriot Act. He said, ‘Joe, I’m introducing the act basically as you wrote it in 1994. [sic]'”
Democrats in Congress are also calling to prioritize domestic terrorism. Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-MI), a former CIA analyst and Pentagon official, made her priorities clear in an interview with MSNBC.
“The post 9/11 era is over. We are in a new era. We had a generational event with the infiltration of the Capitol,” Slotkin said. “The single greatest national security threat right now is our internal division. It’s the threat of domestic terrorism.”
While nothing has been signed into law, legislation addressing domestic terrorism has been introduced in Congress. In 2019, the Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act was introduced in the Senate. The bill called for the creation of domestic terrorism offices within the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and the FBI. A similar bill was introduced in the House in 2020.
This is the real danger. Not QAnon or Trump or Timothy McVeigh or Al-Qaeda, but the liberty people are willing sacrifice for a false sense of security. No force has done more to perpetuate racism and terrorism in this world than the United States Government, and they’re going to save us from ourselves? F**k that.
People like you give me hope. Thank you.
The Communists and Democrats have been rioting for 4 years including invading the capital during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings and storming the White House several times in the last few months. Now all of a sudden another protest is an insurrection calling for more control by the left of speech and the internet. Hell no.
The fact is that Antifa/BLM and the compliant DC police were the ones that CREATED this so-called “riot” amongst what was to that point a peaceful rally. Oh I forgot- facts don’t matter anymore!
Not sure how much it matters. As we see here, Nashville, and almost all the others, even with near perfect surveillance powers they were unable to find what was in plain sight. It seems these programs are really intended as profit centers for the “connected” -like Hunter and James- and marginally as psycho-social engineering, assuring the docility of the docile.
Imagine this had happened in Moscow they’d be pro-democracy protesters according to our corporate masters.
This was going to happen regardless. Am not a fan of all these nut cakes but some are fighting because they know full well Biden’s Justice Dept. will be taking them down. Some for good reason of course. But there will be overreach from left to right.
Biden had a chance and he squandered it — at the time he should have shown leadership.
Calling these rioters terrorists — he has already proven to lack the qualities of a leader in todays times. He blew it.
Nobody called months of violence on the streets of our cities terrorism. Burning police stations, destroying businesses, whole commercial districts of our towns — killing of many innocent passers by, irrational toppling of monuments, irrational hate towards the evil others, while expressing anguish over racial inspired hate.
Where are we now? Nobody is willing to listen to anybody else outside their own echo chamber.
We all have to live together in this country. How spoiled are we not to see how lucky we have been, and how blessed with good life. We can all talk about our greatness and talent — but all can be lost if we are unlucky enough to have leaders devoid of vision and devoid of passion for our common home.
What a shame! Biden clearly intends to deepen the strife. It may be that these fossils in politics do not have the energy for reconciliation and renewal.
They keep on using big words they do not understand. Biden is worried about Russian cyber attacks? Who needs cyber warfare, when windows on the Capitol
Hill can be busted with no special tools.
And now all Biden can think off is his tarnished image for planned global Democracy Summit!
Nor even greatest showman on Earth can fix that.
“Nobody called months of violence on the streets of our cities terrorism”
Bullshit. Black Lives Matter and its activities have been called terrorists/terrorism since they began, including by Trump regime figures and including a 2016 petition to the Obama White House site demanding that they be formally so designated getting enough signatures to elicit an official response.
Hmmm, surely BLM is not = all the bad stuff that went down all summer? The commenter stated that “months and months of violence in our streets … were not called violence.” This is true generically if not specifically to a minority of the protesters.
This would be like conflating all the protesters on 1/6 with the “Proud Boys” or conflating the 1% who invaded the Congress with the other 99%, which I hope we would not favor?
The gist of her comment it right on, I thought … Biden’s comment is very wrong and aggressive and not aimed at healing.
Maybe the Dimwit Party should have thought about some healing for the past 4 1/2 years.
Indeed a good point. Expecting Trump supporters to not react to 4+ years of establishment attacks is unrealistic.
I have expressed myself badly — so criticism deserved.
What I should have said is that the move to legislate domestic terrorism is an overreach by state. And such move was not advanced in Congress to cover BLM. And I doubt that it would have limited such legislation to blacks only, excluding other races participating in same activities. While the current draft domestic terrorism law calls for targeting white supremacism.
In the divisive times we live in it will become impossible to speak up against the dangers of introducing domestic terrorism legislation. Such legislation aims to punish not just actual crimes already in books, but intends to punish thought crimes, perhaps even somebody’s interpretation of what somebody meant to say can be potentially terrorism.
Do not you find it rich that the very people, like Romney, who on his knee this summer voiced support for defunding police, is outraged by the feebleness of Capitol police to be more robust in their response. As if killing an unarmed woman was not enough.
I expected Biden to handle the matter better. If Trump’s impulsiveness was the problem, what is Biden’s excuse?
We have laws in books to prosecute every aspect of such violence. From rioting to property destruction, assault, intimidation, all manners of bodily harm.
But that is not enough clearly. New domestic terrorism definition will be a boon for the private social media platforms to decide what opinions are covered by domestic terrorism legislation, to censor speech and police ideas.
Biden can choose to unify the country or to further dig into divisions. Which keeps politicians in power, but destroys the nation through hyper partisan divide.
“Nobody called months of violence on the streets of our cities terrorism.”
I know it has already been addressed but WOW!!!
True. But in the riots of 1/06/21, it appears to be a one time atrocity. In the case of the the destruction wrought by the riots in over 100 American cities in the summer of 2020? They went on for months.
And that is relevant how?
Should be obvious. Remember the burning and looting by Antifa? Tacitly supported by Blue state mayors and governors….. For months. As opposed to a one off by a violent faction. Immediately condemned and reviled universally by all. Including Trump, although it is hard to find since he has been silenced by the mega corporate state that is now coming into power along with Biden
Yes I do and people called it terrorism which was the ONLY point I was making. So no, it isn’t obvious as to why you brought up the length of the Antifa burning and looting.
You are being Obtuse.
Bullshit. Reread the comments. People DID call the months of violence on our streets terrorism. Your comment was deflection.
“People did call (out) the months of violence…. “. Bullshit indeed. Where did I say that the violence this summer wasn’t condemned ? It was also CONDONED. By corporate media as “mostly peaceful” with fund raising for bail money by leading politicians. Rapid release of violent rioters. Charges being dismissed within hours of the arrests.
That isn’t the case in the Capital atrocitie. Is it? Nor should it be. But the idea that there was similar treatment defies reason. Many, many riots. Over many months. As you can’t seem to understand the difference, again, I have no reason to debate with someone that is so biased that they cannot understand simple things. Thousands of incidents vs one or very few. Many people in many places vs very few…There is a difference.
But all I was replying to was Bianca saying the BLM/Antifa riots weren’t called terrorism. I don’t know what you read into what I said to bring up the length of the riots. I don’t disagree with what you are saying only that it doesn’t apply to my reply to Bianca.
You were replying to me on what I wrote, not Bianca. For clarity on this jssue, you might want to watch Alan Dershowitz on the Dershow.
I meant originally. I should have let it end when you said “true” because I didn’t disagree with what you were saying after that.
The Protest was not anti US in fact just the opposite pro american.
it was a protest against some policies of the governmemnt but if it was a protest st it was against the emocratic Party finst and foremost,.
Hense the panic and fear over reaction by both.Dempo rats and old line dinosaur Republicans who live st control of their Party.
yes there were not many black or brown of skin but there were some, with 4-5 Black pastors and some parishoners., and that is the fault of unreasoning fear of blackds by majprity of Trump supporters.
It is the urban and rural resident working low to mid moddle income working families who understand that US is a failed nation, is already in a depression and the LiberalProgressives have no real plans other than crowd more people into metros or camps for better control over every facet of social and economic restructuring, socialism US style which wiill be far more reprssive than any Islamic or Chinese system.
True it is that Americans will be disrmed laying bare that no matter past lies byy Democrats not wanting to disarm US citizens.
Listen to Pelosi and hose of special Interest by sex, sexual preferences. And Female superiority calling for censorship over any mention of electoral g aud , hate speech and remands that all protestors must be called domestic terrorist
.That there may be 50 -75 million disatisfied with politics as usual does not worry them by itsel , but that those millions will not just sit quietly owhile letting a complete makeover of US has them on edge.
liberals obviously the true fascist amerikans—all supported war in Vietnam…this is why many fascist peasant voted prez harris and her demented chihuahua VP. to her credit she will provide biden life alert system in WH basement
While the “conservatives” led the the Vietnam war protests.
Historical Conservatives did, not the already-forming neocon warmonger type of mal-Conservative.
As did “historical” liberals. Not the already-forming neoliberal type mal-Liberal.
Effectively there are very few liberals as you likely use the term. Many of the brave ones such as Taibbi, Greenwald and Johnstone have been speaking out. They have my utmost respect. They are being suppressed by the neoliberal, neocon, corporate establishment. I urge all people of good heart to support the truth tellers regardless of their ideology.
I was talking about Vietnam era liberals. The people you mention were either not born yet or infants.
Indeed. Neocons were democrats in the past and have now rejoined the Democrats.
What?
Sarcasm.
Actually I was one of the ones that did indeed lead anti war efforts. Although even then I was more libertarian than conservative. I was NOT one of the ones that spat on returning veterans. I considered them to be victims of the establishment ‘s war. I likely was on a list or two and fully expect to on a list as we once again flirt with deep tyranny.
The Vietnam era veterans WERE victims, as were the troops sent over to Iraq.
Thanks Jake. I lost friends in Viet Nam. I have never forgotten them.
They weren’t protesters, they were cult members standing up for their cult leader. They didn’t storm the Capitol building because they were fed up with tyranny, they did it because they were incited by their cult leader who wouldn’t accept the election results. They didn’t call people like Pence a “traitor” because they thought he wasn’t being loyal to his country but because he wasn’t being loyal to their cult leader. They wanted their cult leader to remain their cult leader. Nothing more.
A tiny fraction of the demonstrators rioted. Calling Pence a traitor was emotional. Same as calling Trump a cult leader. Look elsewhere for tyranny and cultism.
“Calling Pence a traitor was emotional.”
And who stoked those emotions? The cult leader.
Trump set up his own people intentionally. He was always a fraud and his true allegiances are private.
You have a pretty strange definition for “cult”. Perhaps that’s your version of “deplorables”? I live peacefully among them and find them to be generous. My neighbors adopt children. Of all races. Raise their biological kids and adopted children with love. They have countless human qualities. They are disparaged and mocked by those that they feed and truck goods for. The hatred of them by the msm, government apparatchiks and the general political establishment is obvious and reprehensible.
And did I say anything about those people you describe? I was talking about the president of the US stoking the crowd to the point they were chanting “hang Pence” once they breached the capitol building. People blindly flocking to Washington because Trump has declared the election to be rigged. Like this is the first time Trump has called an election that he doesn’t like the outcome a fraud. Did any of his following do any research to see if maybe the asshole they blindly follow might have gone down this road before?
Couple of quotes from 2012:
“Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”
“This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!”
Quote after Iowa caucus in 2016:
“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it,” Trump (@realDonaldTrump) tweeted. “That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!”
Before the 2016 election:
“Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day.
“The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary – but also at many polling places – SAD.”
After the 2016 election:
“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Trump tweeted.
So yes, cult members.
You are being myopic. While you correctly call out the excessive verbiage of Trump, you ignore the political context. Trump often used hyperbolic language. So what? Many politicians do the same thing.
Note that Biden, for example calling opposition senators “Goebbels”. Actions are more relevant. How many people did Trump prosecute for whistleblowing? A record number… .err no. That was Obama. But no. He did label millions of those that supported his political opponents as “deplorables”. My mistake. That was Hillary Clinton. And note that VP Harris called Biden a racist and a misogynist….. Then laughed about it with Colbert. “It a debate” she said
Point is there are no clean hands in the political realm. But note, although Trump complained about what he considered to be unfair in the media, he didn’t use the agencies of the government to go after his political opponents. He was on the receiving side of that. He didn’t attempt to censor his opponents using political power. THAT is exactly what we are beginning to see. Censorship.
You are incensed by Trump, who until Jan 6th, did nothing illegal to defend his and followers real belief that the election was rigged. Why was that belief so wrong anyway?
I don’t have a dog in that fight as I didn’t vote for Trump. But lets be honest. Trump would have likely won the election without the changes in voting procedures brought about by Democrat lawyers over the last year. Mail in voting massively favored Democrats. And it legitimate to challenge these changes.
Now, imo, we will be seeing what happens when a real radical fusion of corporate liberal government is in power. Unfortunately, this will be seen as proof by Trump supporters that he was right all along. IMO, the people in power will be far worse than Trump or his predecessors. The courts are an unreliable ally of liberty and the Constitution. And huge numbers of the American people hate each other. The only ones to win in this situation are the very people that caused this state of affairs.
I don’t know why I bother with this discourse. People’s minds are made up. I can only hope that there is enough reason left to stand against the coming tide. Else the will be more wars, more oppression and violation of the rights of the people.
If you want to twist yourself into a pretzel to take the blame off of Trump, have at it.
I’m the one who is twisting????
Yes.
You are being myopic. While you correctly call out the excessive verbiage of Trump, you ignore the political context. Note that Biden, for example calling opposition senators Goebbels, for example.
And if Biden supporters had stormed the Capitol for his ” excessive verbiage” I would be condemning them equally and blaming Biden.
Just curious… did you actually see Trumps speech? Did you even know that the people who heard his speech were not the same crowd who breached security at the capital? You act like I didn’t condemn the violence and condone it. For weeks you have been complaining that Trump refused to concede the election. Fact: there WERE anomalies and procedural questions in this election. Trump and his followers were fully and constitutionally entitled to question. THAT is in line with the principles of a Constitutional Republic. You seem to disagree with that fact. Along with the corporate media and Washington DC establishment.
The term Trump derangement syndrome applies. I don’t like the man and didn’t vote for him. But he struck a chord with disenfranchised and disparaged Americans and I have great sympathy for them.
You just told me I was correct to call out Trump’s excessive verbiage and now you ask me if I actually saw Trump’s speech?
I haven’t been complaining “for weeks” about no such thing regarding Trump’s concession. I said he lost fair and square is all and that was very early on. And I agreed back then that there were anomalies in this election just like there are anomalies in EVERY election. And I agree that every candidate has the right to question those anomalies so no I DON’T disagree with that fact. But I do look at the court cases thrown out and Trump’s past claims at election fraud(that you seem to ignore)in every election he doesn’t agree with the outcome. Even a Trump appointed lawyer in Penn. said that saying there is election fraud over and over again isn’t evidence there is actual election fraud.
I’ve had ObamaDS, BushDS, ClintonDS, BushDS, RaeganDS and on and on. I have voted for more Libertarians than either D’s or R’s and I’m not a libertarian. So please save that TDS crap for somebody else. I judged Trump by his actions and the shit that spews out of his mouth.
So that makes all liberal mobs shouting “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon” a huge cult, too?
If they were doing it at the behest of their leader, certainly.
And I was alluding to that “tiny faction”. Trump is a cult leader. No other apt description. And he doesn’t give a flying fuck about his minions.
As if Joe Robinette Biden does.
We’re going to soon see what Biden thinks about the Constitution. Biden drafted the prototype of the unconstitutional”Patriot Act”. The new version will be enhanced and be directed toward Americans.
And to bad Trump didn’t go after that misnamed atrocity like he did the JCPOA.
Couldn’t agree more. I am hardly defending Trump on the many things he didn’t or did do. He can still do some good. Pardon people whose “crime” was to expose the deep state’s murderous and illegal actions. Free them to tell the truth.
Did I say that? Have you heard me praise Biden at any point? Is “feeble senile fool” a compliment?
No – but I never saw you call him a cult leader of the media.
Cult leader of the media? Please elaborate.
the MSM loves Biden as much as they hate Trump, making them cult members of all things Dem, and with Biden being the brain-dead leader of the Dems, that makes them cult followers of Biden.
I don’t consider OAN, Fox and Friends, or Newsmax to be cultish so I don’t consider the MSM cultish either. If they were to blindly flock to Washington to take part in a protest based on the word of a man that never agrees with any election outcome that he doesn’t like, then maybe.
“trump a cult leader” let’s see, got thousands to risk life and freedom over his bs election fraud delusion. Received over $200ooo,ooo in unaccountable donations for the same fraudulent delusion. Threw them all under a bus and stashed the cash. The only thing missing is the flying saucers coming to wisk them all away to trumpworld.
That’s the same for all political candidates – the higher the office held or sought, the larger the corporate and individual donation (to the campaign) tally.
Of course, trump is taking advantage of a corrupt campaign finance system…but watch as his trumpU accountants and lawyers say ” hold my beer”…
All politicans take advantage of a corrupt campaign finance system. Why single out one politician, who probably paid more of his own money in the 2016 campaign than the rest of them combined.
Trump was elected in the first place, because he understood that the man in the street knows that he has been passed by and is full of inchoate rage. He was under constant attack by every aspect of the establishment, right tor wrong. If Pelosi’s husband was involved the the voting machines, there is no doubt in the minds of many that there was a stolen election.
Any evidence from a credible source for that fantastical fabrication?
How Presidential. That will go a long way in unifying the country.
Conflating all the protesters with the few that pushed through the rediculously weak force around the building is unethical. The great great majority of the people there were simply people misled by Trump and online media into thinking there’s been a “steal” … False, but common and widespread.
Even the people that broke in, though, were not committing insurrection and terrorism: they milled around, took selfies, and went home when appropriate force finally showed up. They were a mob and actually not a particularly violent one as mobs go.
The main lesson must be this: We have forgotten what happens when large parts of the population determine that they are utterly not represented. Since 2008 it has been more and more clear that the people have lost this govt. and the frustration led to Trump. The frustration continues to build, with very ominous potential for the future. Calling normal people insurrectionists like is not going to help at all.
“2008” ? Lol
Why would anybody laugh at ‘Hope and Change” who immediately sent 70,000 troops to Afghanistan, and then presided over and supported the destruction of Syria and Libya, among other terrible murderist acts? Along with congressional support?
In fact, as Caliman suggests, this faker Obama certainly contributed to the Trump election. It was not a laughing matter, considering the millions killed, injured and displaced. Trump started no new wars.
And as Caliman also suggests, this is not all about Trump, it is about the real issues of war and peace, which some laugh about.
I see, Obama dealing with Cheneys’ war mess is somehow worse than the actual invasions of 2002 and 1900….have a tissue, I have some left over from 2016.
There was no invasion in 2002, self-styled expert. And 1900? Obama/Hillary destroyed an Iraq starting to recover and wrecked Libya, Syria and Ukraine forever, among a hundred other crimes.
Who was President in 2003? Not that this has anything to do with Trump and all the whataboutism.
The “Cheney’s war mess” description is ridiculous. The Dems started “Operation Iraqi Freedom” with Clinton’s Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 a United States statement of policy stating that “It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.” Then Biden was a leading proponent for war as Senate foreign relations chief. Cheney had nothing to do with those events.
. . .So okay let’s gone back before loser Obama.
So you are going to pretend that the invasion of Iraq by Bush 1 in 1990 had nothing to do with that ? Or that the sanctions enforced by Clinton were not enacted by the Bush administration?
It all comes down to this… We should have elected Pat Buchanan in ’96.
None of this would have ever happened.
Oh I see, Bush dealing with Clinton’s war mess……..
Indeed. Always some excuse. That’s why I supported Ron Paul. No excuses. “We marched in. We can march right out again”…. He was attacked relentlessly by establishment pro war media allied with the Democrats. Being anti war wasn’t important to the the Democrats. That was just a posture to fool people that were really anti war. The same bunch trashed a real anti war Democrat Kucinich.
“pro war democrats”…left to solely democrat votes in congress, neither Iraq war authorizations would have passed. Biden, or Clinton, are not “the democrats”
Course you can find all the gop opposition to the wars in Ron Paul’s front right pocket. But sure, criticize the dems forever. Seems party is more important than antiwar to many.
Democrats have only opposed wars if the POTUS was a Republican. It’s pretend anti war.
Democrats have been voting for wars and refusing to bring the troops home for quite awhile. Now that the neocons have rejoined the Democratic party, the Democrats are going to be very pro war. As they were under Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama. Anf Biden has been very pro war. Do you actually think a Democrat Congress is going to oppose a pro war Democrat POTUS? That’ll be the day.
Same as Tulsi Gabbard, same m.o. by most of not all opponents on the debate stage, to paint them as apologists and appeasers.
She would have made a much better POTUS. But the Democrats were not interested in an anti interventionist candidate.
…AND Paddy Buchanan.
Right from the start!
Ron Paul was also attacked by the RINO’s. I remember him being booed at the debates for saying 9/11 was blowback. Rudy *9/11* G threw a hissy fit.
Cheney was around in 1900? Who knew? I guess evil is really is immortal.
How did Obama “deal with Cheney’s war mess”? By destroying Libya? Ruining Syria? Starting US involvement in Yemen? Got it. Must fix what war criminals did by doing more of it and BECOMING war criminals. Twisted!
Thank y’all fer addressing my date error…important stuff.
Didn’t say Obama dealt with the post invasion of Iraq well. The Cheney mid east invasions caused millions of refugees which overwhelmed neighboring countries, causing the arab spring and associated civil wars. Cause and effect. trump is way more responsible for the destruction of Syria than Obama. Get a grip.
Sure thing. Except it’s not true. Obama began Syrian intervention in 2011. by 2015, The USA had dropped 500 millions into training FSA fighters who were supposed to overthrow the Assad regime. Most of that ended up in the hands of the Nusra Front, an al Quaeda group. Another program started in 2013 (Obama) was the billion dollar program called Timber Sycamor. Yes, Trump inherited this debacle. Bucking the establishment position on this program which wanted to expand it, Trump cancelled it in the Summer of 2017. Trump, several times attempted to withdraw US troops and was met with establishment resistance, including prominent Democrats including, Bernie Sanders. Finally in 2020, Trump attempted to withdraw all but a few hundred US troops from Syria. He failed due to the Pentagon lying. The official who oversaw the fake withdrawals was praised by Corporate media and a number of prominent Democrats. As we also know, the same bunch blocked US troop withdrawal from from Afghanistan.
True. Trump bombed Syria with missiles when he was told the Assad regime had used chemical weapons on it’s own people. That was after the intelligence agencies told him it 100% that Assad had ordered the attack. It turned out to be another of a long list of lies by the deep state.
Guess I gotta spam this again….there were 350 US spec ops in Syria when trump came in. Of these, most had been lurking in Syria since 1990 when the first Iraq invasion occurred. trump invaded with 4000 marines in 2017, including 2 batteries (about 24 guns) which splooged 100ooo 155mm guided shells throughout Northern Syria and Iraq in 18 months. trump also quadrupled airstrikes there. Who destroyed Syria ?
trump also sent 7000 combat troops to Afghanistan in 2017, and changed their mission to combat. Also quadrupled airstrikes there.
There remains in all theaters, more troops, more air strikes, than when he came in.
Have more Kool aide.
Funny that you failed to address the facts that Obama not only began the intervention in Syria and realistically CAUSED the insurrection in that country., As stated he put massive covert actions in place in Syria. And note that without Obama’s regime change interventions in Syria, ISIS would have easily been handled by the Syrian government. The vast majority of the air strikes in Syria were against ISIS under Trump. I will give you that pro intervention holdovers from the Obama administration did indeed convince Trump to temporarily put more troops and resources in Syria. He wasn’t a particularly strong anti interventionist. But, as we later saw, he wasn’t in control of the military and was lied to by people put in place by Bush neocons warmongers and Obama Warhawks.
Earlier you excused Obama for increasing troops in Afghanistan by 70,000 to ” fix Cheney ‘s” war. Hmmm… 70,000 vs 7,000. Some “logic”. Then, of course, there was Libya. All Democrats and future Democrats (neocons) on that one. Be interesting to see how you will excuse the upcoming increases in wars from Bidens extremely pro intervention war cabinet. THAT will confirm that Democrats are pro war when its a Democrat in the White House.
As far as the kool aid? No thanks. But it seems you drank it all up anyway.
Never made an excuse for Obamas failure in Afghanistan. You are confusing criticism of trump with support of Obama policies. Common partisan stuff. I know very well Bidens’ record. It is pretty clear, aside from a dem faction which votes antiwar, the US government is run by warmongers.
We can agree. Unfortunately it is a relatively weak and inconsistent antiwar dem faction. And that faction will be shrinking as the neocons take more power within the Democratic party.
“True. Trump bombed Syria with missiles when he was told the Assad regime had used chemical weapons on it’s own people. That was after the intelligence agencies told him it 100% that Assad had ordered the attack. It turned out to be another of a long list of lies by the deep state.”
Not quite.
“On April 6, United States President Donald Trump authorized an early morning Tomahawk missile strike on Shayrat Air Base in central Syria in retaliation for what he said was a deadly nerve agent attack carried out by the Syrian government two days earlier in the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun. Trump issued the order despite having been warned by the U.S. intelligence community that it had found no evidence that the Syrians had used a chemical weapon.”
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article165905578/Trump-s-Red-Line.html
Actually I was referring to the April 13, 2018 attack on Syria. “I am confidant the Syrian regime conducted a chemical attack on innocent people in this last week, yes. Absolutely confident of it. And we have the intelligence level of confidence…” James Mattis April 13th 2018.
As far as The April 6th 2017 attack on Syria? That briefing did not acknowledge any intelligence at all. The media didn’t even ask the question. Note that the media and the DC establishment was effusive in praising the attack. Both political parties.
Trump and Mattis parted ways in 2018 when Mattis resigned after Trump called for US troops to be withdrawn from Syria.
Trump surrounded himself by some really poor picks. The DC establishment is blood thirsty and war hungry. Trump was out of his depth.
I still can’t anything that collaborates your “intelligence agencies told him 100% that Assad ordered the attack. But I did find this comment from Trump:
“Trump had set a path toward retaliation IMMEDIATELY after last Saturday’s reports of a chemical attack. “If President Obama had crossed his stated Red Line In The Sand, the Syrian disaster would have ended long ago!” he tweeted the following Sunday. “Animal Assad would have been history!”
Again obtuse. Not defending the action of the attack on the Syrians. Obviously. And I condemned the attacks and debunked the claims that the Syran government was the culprit on this and other sites at those times. Indeed even before the attacks took place.
But, clearly, the transcript provided above where Mattis claimed “absolute confidence” and ” the intelligence level of confidence ” are clear.
You are being both obtuse and nitpicking. It is a waste of my time. We’re done.
What’s the problem? I wasn’t trying to be an asshole. I thought we were having a friendly disagreement. I wasn’t at all implying that you were defending the attacks. What we disagreed on is Trump’s role and how much he was influenced. I’m only posting things to prove what I believe to be Trump’s enthusiasm for the attacks and how the outside influences(Mattis, Intelligence agencies)didn’t matter as much as some people think. Sorry if I pissed you off.
Why are we doing this to ourselves? Both parties are the same. All presidents same. Trump was an accidental president, managed to sneak through the tightly controlled audition process called primaries.
He has few real beliefs, except the belief in stopping the drain and drag on our economy through endless wars. He had sound “tough” as our primitive ethos demands it.
But he pulled some forces out in spite of bi-partisan objection. He had misplaced belief in Israel as force for the good, as US entanglements in the ME are inexorably linked to Israel’s inability to work with region directly.
If there is a hope for post-Trump era, it will be a hope in continuing anti-interventionism, as military ventures are merely a symptom of a larger disease — a corruption that comes with the complete control of Congress by corporations and their interests.
They are all the same. Remember what Clinton did. Poor baby he so cried over Rwanda genocide having it instigated himself by paid Tutsi militants stationed in Uganda, shooting down plane with the country’s president in board, then pushing millions of Hutu population into jungles. Not to mention his chomping up Balkans like somebody left it to him in inheritance. They are all bad. Trump had his share of atrocities to add to the despicable list.
Why are we arguing partisanship? Who is better and who is worse.
For some reason — at is not the empire ambitions, the two parties are locked into mortal combat. Why? Why now? It must be something about money. Whose interests are being stepped on?
What are they denied? Who is on the offense and who is on defense?
They all want Empire — so what is it that is getting them so polarized.
“who is better who is worse” Easy peasey….the dems are on the record for congressional votes to not authorize wars, or, not intervene. That faction doesn’t win. Whose fault is that ? Should antiwar people critize the only polity on their side, or lump them with the likes of Biden because they lose ? There is scant if any antiwar votes coming from the gop, for decades. They are predictable. People whom only focus on the potus, are either authoritarians, or gullible. 2 hours of researching congressional war authorization votes demonstrates the parties are not “the same”. Now, the militancy loves to make magic by making realities vanish in front of our eyes. This is what I see when I read “the parties are the same” in the face of obvious voting records. The antiwar votes don’t count because they lost.
Thanks. This is from RT today in an article by Fyodor Lukyanov, the editor-in-chief of Russia in Global Affairs, chairman of the Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, and research director of the Valdai International Discussion Club: At least with Trump we knew that he didn’t like wars, and he didn’t start any new ones. Biden’s credit history is very different.
How many did he end? Oh, and by the way, you should qualify that with “yet” (see: Iran)
He was fast tracking our withdrawal from Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq – despite incredible resistance and duplicity from the Deep State…
I’ll give him an A for effort.
Occupying the oil fields and saying that’s what he was doing is a long way from leaving Syria. Assassination on Iraqi soil of a peace envoy and then refusing to leave Iraq, de facto occupying it too, ditto.
Reducing the troop levels to 500 is far from what it was.
As for the assassinations are concerned, he’ll have to answer to Iran, Iraq, and ultimately Allah.
Don’t recall any bitching from the Dems when it all went down.
I think 500 is right around the number when Trump was sworn in. And troop level doesn’t erase two missile attacks for bogus reasons or the killer caesar sanctions. And the dems being mum on the assassinations only means the dems are equally vile.
Correct on the overall number of US troops but there is a qualitative difference between guarding oil fields in a far off desert region and using Special Forces to actively participate in the war.
There is also the issue of the Pentagon, who by its own admission, was deliberately lying to Trump about those troop levels.
I agree. But you brought up the troop levels. If we talk about what Trump did overall in Syria I don’t think it was much of an improvement.
I really don’t care about American parties. Their complicity doesn’t justify his, just as any Republican complicity or indeed opposition justifies Obama’s failures. It’s a partisan deflection. I care about individual responsibility and non partisanship, i.e., consistency in holding people accountable the same way. If people are going to say Obama didn’t keep his promise to close Guantanamo, for example, you have to also admonish Trump for saying he’d do things he didn’t, and likewsie did do things he also said he wouldn’t be doing, like playing golf (that’s a whole other story).
No partisan deflection intended. I’m just pointing out that President Trump had accomplices and they ought to be in the dock with him.
A for effort, and A for the sheer guile in pulling US out of a de facto support for Kurdish state in Syria.
This is what Hillary advocated. Now that Syria is no longer in danger from cross-border infiltration of PKK — Kurdish YPG has lost its power.
Not that Biden will not try to revive the heady project. But he will find that no country in the region — Turkey particularly — will support it.
Trump has in Syria managed at least to disentangle US from another secessionist project. We are still entangled in Kosovo and South Sudan. But Trump insured we will not be nursing another secessionist unviable entity for the next one hundred years.
This is utterly unfair. He may be a flawed human being, but with persistence and guile he often pulled off withdrawals. Even partial, as unsatisfactory as many feel it is.
Has it escaped your attention that his Secretary of Defense, Mattis resigned over Syria withdrawal.
His Iran obsession is Israel’s obsession. He had to go an extra mile for Israel in order to disengage America from ME wars. He was naive.
He is doing now what incoming team wants. Watch it — Biden will not undo anything. Perhaps cosmetically.
Already, and on whose orders, some troops are crossing into Syria. What for? They are not needed, no population wants them, nobody invited them. They are challenging Syria and Russia who already liberated those areas from ISIS, and population supports the government?
This is called asking for trouble. Biden thinks he can go back to Obama years, and trounce some weak countries.
Well, his “persistence and guile” included escalating troop levels before withdrawing back down to where they were before he started. That may have beguiled you, but it din’t beguile everyone.
You are wrong. Let us talk Syria. US from air, and SDF/YPG on the ground controlled area from Manbij on Euphrates along Turkish border, throughout Kobane region, with Kobane being Kurdish capital, with State Department drafted “constitution”, then all the way up to Hassskah province and Iraqi border. Along Euphrates, Kurds controlled the dam, as well as destroyed Raqqa. US from air did not allow Russian or Syrian Air Force to pursue ISIS or whatever. What remains in US control today is parts of Deir Azzor desert and Al-Tanf base. Some oil-wells are controlled as a means to panicky rescue of what is left of US presence. Sure enough, “ISIS” raids on Syrian controlled territory are ALL conducted from what is left of US controlled area.
Todsy, Manbij, Kobane, Raqqa are in government controlled territory with Kurds still making some outsized demands, bur without territory control they cannot aspire to state as before. As for Deir Azzor area and the wells presumably kept to help Kurds, it is a joke that Kurds can control territory there and lord over 99% Arab population there.
Along Turkish border where YPG and US literally lowed for unification of Syrian and Turkish Kurdistan -/ today there is a border buffer zone plus a demilitarized zone patrolled permanently by Russian-Turkish patrols.
Whatever the number you may think existed or exists — Syria got back about 20% of territory.
In the area close to Iraqi birder where US still “patrols” a small area jointly with Russia — the frequent provocations there resulted in Russia conducting their announced patrols from helicopters, eliminating necessity to patrol in the ground.
The conundrum for those Us strategies trying to anchor themselves in Syria —there is no earthly reason fir doing it. No population is clamoring for US intervention. Unless we dress up those mysterious ISIS desert dwellers into a newly minted endangered minority crying for our help — I cannot see the way.
Syria withdrawal is real, Trump pulled it off in a deal with Turkey, which morphed into Turkey-Russia-SAA deal.
Similar process is under way in Iraq.it is a gradual shrinking of footprint, prior to final pullout.
Naturally, Democrats and Republicans liberated from Trump can try their best to increase footprints and war profiteering profits. Naturally, they will claim Trump did nothing.
I am not defending Trump and could not care less what his motives were in turning over Syrian territory. It just happened — do not deny it.
Trump did not start new wars but he did not end any wars either. He rigged Brazil’s Election to get Bolsonaro in power. He had a meeting with him and secretly discussed how to go about overthrowing Maduro and installing Guaido as the President. He sent a drone strike to Iran to kill Soleimani. He has been trying to stop Covid 19 Vaccines from being sent to Iran. He withdrew from the Iran Deal and re-established sanctions against them and renewed sanctions against Cuba. Trump is by no means a peacemonger.Trump’s Mideast Policy has been a total flop, he recognizes illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories and says every patriotic American is loyal to Israel.
United we stand, divided we fall, deservingly so. But this is no time to just “move on”. Trump clearly fomented insurrection, but not much more so than Faux news endless innuendo around non-existent election fraud. Yet fox’s tantrums are responsible relative to the zero-principle fascist media many are flocking to now. Rapid impeachment is the path towards healing. I expect the senate to end their recess if they believe in accountability and functional government. The problem is, many gop extremists have become senators with the intent to destroy our government, not improve it.
When the left does it’s a “resistance” . When Trump supporters do similar things its insurrection? Got it. You think somehow this helps with unity?
I read his comment and didn’t see the word “resistance” or even the implication.
You totally missed the reference.
Fill me in.
No one is helping with unity, and that’s the problem. This is how fascism starts. Elections don’t matter. Killing people is appropriate political engagement. Oaths of office are just words. News is just partisan PR. That’s not my country. The senate is failing it’s loyalty test to democracy, as are many amerikkkans.
How fascism starts is when a state allies with corporate power. Hint: Giant tech corporations, financial corporations etc. We all know how much these were allied with Trump, right?… Nope. That alliance was with the other side.
Look elsewhere for fascism.
The tech firms are delivering accountability that the government can’t do quickly. Even fox news says Trump deserves impeachment. I too will not unify behind a government that is unwilling or unable to defend it’s constitution and due process. If we cannot work together, we should no longer pretend that’s possible.
Sleepy Joe is updating the definition of Hillary’s deplorables.
Correct. Now they are “dangerous insurrectionists”.
The “domestic terrorists” were in Hong Kong, Belarus etc egged on by the very people who failed to recognise them for what they were.
Actually they were supported by the US presence of the NED, etc.,
>Trump came to drain the swamp and that includes the Congress with its ‘rock solid’ 19% approval rating here.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html
>In Washington protesters are called “domestic terrorists,” in Hong Kong they are “democracy advocates.”
The difference being that in the Hong Kong they are protesting for democracy, where as those who committed violence in Washington are trying to overthrow democracy.
You have got to be kidding. In Hong Kong they have by many orders of magnitude more democracy than they ever had as British colony. What the “democracy” call was an attempt to push China into recognizing Hong Kong sovereignty. And that was not going to happen any more than any US stare calling for sovereignty by rejecting federal laws. The violence that ensued was not approved by majority of people —just as US population did not condone this summer’s violence, or Capitol Hill violence.
And we had no business supporting it — and the only reason we did, was to annoy and gloat over China. Out “democracy” prattle has become annoying to the most of the world. We seem to want to educate everyone, when in reality we are the society in a bad need to start listening to each other, and practice what we preach.
re: “The post 9/11 era is over. We are in a new era. We had a generational event with the infiltration of the Capitol,” Slotkin said.
from the web….”Time for a Tour: Visiting the People’s House. . .If you are planning a trip to the U.S. Capitol and want to know more before you arrive. .”
from the headlines:
>Former Capitol police chief shares thoughts on why officers appeared to let rioters in
>Law Enforcement Draws Criticism After Breach of Capitol Building
>What went wrong with security at the Capitol?
>Behind the Strategic Failure of the Capitol Police
The democrats set the trend to allow Antifa/BLM rioters all summer, and now they reap a tiny bit of what they have sowed.
FBI definition:
Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.
So the government can put down peaceful protests with violence but the protesters can never be violent? . .Well I’ve spent some time on peaceful protests and do you know what they accomplished?…Nothing, that’s what. The government does not respond to anything but financial and political rewards, or to violence. That’s a fact of life.
In America, you get what you vote for. Dumbshit murcans vote for other dumbshits. Biden calls the protestors thugs, terrorists, other names du jour, and seeks to arrest and prosecute. But less than a year ago, he supported other protestors with politics and money, as people fighting for their democracy: Hong Kong. Readers may recall the HK protestors stormed and vandalised the Legislature, murdered innocents, incited resurrection, and all the while the govt of China stood by and sent no troops to assist the HK police. So which govt has the greater respect for human rights?
Just some quotes for reference from trump claims of election results that were rigged:
Couple of quotes from 2012:
“Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”
“This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!”
Quote after Iowa caucus in 2016:
“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he stole it,” Trump (@realDonaldTrump) tweeted. “That is why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. Bad!”
Before the 2016 election:
“Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day.
“The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary – but also at many polling places – SAD.”
After the 2016 election:
“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally,” Trump tweeted.
Been awhile since I posted here on antiwar(dot)com. I’m curious how readers here feel about Trump. This page comes off as being left. Four years of Trump and no mid-east wars. But presumably anti-war leftists like Noam Chomsky abhor Trump. Does Trump’s positions that are derivative of white nationalist politics like restriction of immigration and building the wall, dare I say, trump his anti-war stances?
Then I suppose he is ready to denounce all the other disorders of the last two years as domestic terrorism, BLM in particular?
Nah, only Republicans.
Interesting; i didn’t know Biden originally wrote the Patriot Act. It’s frightening that he actually is proud of that. Napolitano said Kavanaugh was also involved in the writing of the Patriot Act. Is it correct to say then that Kavanaugh basically edited what Biden had written?
Biden wrote a VERSION of the Patriot Act in 1994/1995. He actually bragged that what he wrote was the basis of the Patriot Act passed in 2001.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – At least 25 domestic terrorism cases have been
opened as a result of Wednesday’s deadly[sic] assault on the U.S. Capitol by
supporters of President Donald Trump, U.S. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy
told a Democratic lawmaker on Sunday.
A self fulfilling prophesy if ever there was one..
America is a parasitic cancer to the world
Y’all hate Trump, and he is not the hero conservatives think he is – but he’s definitely forced the American deep-state / oligarch kleptocracy to reveal itself for all to see.
His greatest achievement. And THAT is why the establishment has demonized and marginalized him. .
If a group of people had stormed the Russian parliament they’d be pro-democracy protesters according to our corporate masters.