Turkish officials have been suggesting that they would dispatch a military escort with future aid flotillas to the Gaza Strip in response to the massacre of aid workers on board one of their ships by Israeli commandos earlier this week. The scope of the operation was never disclosed.
But now it looks like this may come to fruition in the near term and in very high profile fashion, as security sources within Turkey are reporting that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is not only planning to dispatch the Navy on the next flotilla, but that he is considering accompanying them personally.
Israeli officials dismissed the possibility of Erdogan visiting the Gaza Strip with the flotilla, describing it as unrealistic. The United States has reportedly asked Erdogan to delay the aid operation in light of rising tensions with Israel.
As Turkey’s population has expressed outrage over the massacre of Turkish citizens and the government has expressed its displeasure at Israel’s attack, Israel has done a comparatively successful job in spinning Turkey as the real villain domestically, and Israeli protesters have been out in force condemning Erdogan and Turkey in general as terrorists for both dispatching aid to the besieged strip and for complaining when the aid workers were killed.
Israel’s formidable military has roughly the same budget as Turkey’s, but as a member in good standing of NATO Turkey could also call upon much of the international community if its Navy is attacked on such a mission, making it unlikely Israel will choose to solve an accompanied aid delivery militarily.
Go Turkey
It's simple:
Turkish ship.
International waters.
Turkey member of NATO.
All the rest is ink in the water.
Oh foo.
If this degenerates into a shooting match, the Samson option cannot be far behind.
Pass the popcorn…
Gertrude Stein, "Reflection on the Atomic Bomb" (1946)
They asked me what I thought of the atomic bomb. I said I had not been able to take any interest in it.
I like to read detective and mystery stories. I never get enough of them but whenever one of them is or was about death rays and atomic bombs I never could read them. What is the use, if they are really as destructive as all that there is nothing left and if there is nothing there nobody to be interested and nothing to be interested about. If they are not as destructive as all that then they are just a little more or less destructive than other things and that means that in spite of all destruction there are always lots left on this earth to be interested or to be willing and the thing that destroys is just one of the things that concerns the people inventing it or the people starting it off, but really nobody else can do anything about it so you have to just live along like always, so you see the atomic [bomb] is not at all interesting, not any more interesting than any other machine, and machines are only interesting in being invented or in what they do, so why be interested. I never could take any interest in the atomic bomb, I just couldn't any more than in everybody's secret weapon. That it has to be secret makes it dull and meaningless. Sure it will destroy a lot and kill a lot, but it's the living that are interesting not the way of killing them, because if there were not a lot left living how could there be any interest in destruction. Alright, that is the way I feel about it. They think they are interested about the atomic bomb but they really are not not any more than I am. Really not. They may be a little scared, I am not so scared, there is so much to be scared of so what is the use of bothering to be scared, and if you are not scared the atomic bomb is not interesting.
Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense. They listen so much that they forget to be natural. This is a nice story.
Gertrude Stein, 1946
[first published in Yale Poetry Review, December 1947]
Somewhat a lame piece of elitist drivel by Gertrude. So it all boils down to whether hundreds of thousands die is "interesting" or not? <disinterested, yet poetical, yawn>
‘Clang, clang’ is not the sound of a ship’s bell, it is this guy’s balls.
However, should he go ahead, I suspect it will be quickly followed by some pretty heavy terrorist attacks by the PKK, after getting a little help from their ‘friends’.
The world has a new Islamist nut-job!! Please welcome Turkish Prime MinisterRecep Tayyip Erdogan!!!
Yes, anyone who disagrees with us is obviously insane and worthy of not only our scorn but also our undying enmity. In fact, why don't we just skip all of the fancy prologue and declare Turkey a 'rogue' nation and it's people congenitally and irredeemably evil? After all, what kind of an 'Axis of Evil' can you really have with only Iran and North Korea as part of the club? Obviously Turkey is auditioning to replace Iraq as the 3rd and vital member!
And yes, your observations and assertions are both new and exciting. /golfclap
At least this man has the guts to defy the murdering Zionist State whereas the USA and EU bow down cap in hand.
Go Turkey GO!
At least the "murdering Zionist State" didn't slaughter nearly TWO MILLION innocent Armenians in a bloodthirsty genocide! No, that was ANOTHER murdering state which you're only too happy to defend!
I suppose if enough time passes by, even the most blood-drenched countries are hailed as heroes when it suits their ignorant, bigoted defenders.
The so-called "murdering Zionist State" never slaughtered almost 2 million innocent Armenians. And Turkey has killed far more Turkish Kurds than Israel has Palestinians.
Facts are stubborn things, fool. But why let facts spoil your ecstatic frenzy of juden-hating bigotry?
At least the "murdering Zionist State" didn't slaughter nearly TWO MILLION innocent Armenians in a bloodthirsty genocide! No, that was ANOTHER murdering state which you're only too happy to defend!
I suppose if enough time passes by, even the most blood-drenched countries are hailed as heroes when it suits their ignorant, bigoted defenders.
The world has a new Hasbara shill Zionist tool who knows how to use the megaphone software and donates his time to defending murdering land theives please welcome "mrtmbrnmn."
You realize he has been the Prime Minister of Turkey for quite some time… so he isnt so "new" on the block… Just FYI
So you say "Islamist nut job"–betraying your racist mentality.
It'd be kind of neat to see what would happen, however, I don't think the PM of Turkey will actually do it. More than likely he's catering to his political base. But before you denigrate him specifically for doing so you might want to keep in mind that politicians the world over indulge in the same behavior. Netanyahu springs to mind!
Also, anyone else savoring the delicious irony of Turkey being the champion of the oppressed? I guess it really is a mad, mad world when the only country to have the guts to take on Israel over human rights abuses is Turkey whose own past could be generously described as 'checkered' in that arena. Of course my government has made great 'progress' in becoming a bit less humanitarian and a bit more authoritarian in its own right, so who am I to complain? 🙂
There are many people of good will from around the world who are thinking right now that they want to be on the next boat.
That's the non-violent response to this outrage. More ships. More activists. And more prominent people starting to join in. I'm guessing he's serious. So are many others.
It is fascinating when the land of midnight express prisons is now supporting freedom, while the land of freedom is now supporting the people who open fire on unarmed activists with machine guns.
I'm simply curious as to who's organizing the next boat, and where might I volunteer for it. Interesting that, who knows, I might be sailing with a PM.
Man, this guy MUST have balls of steel. He's confronting not just Israel, the MAD DOG country, but also the US, EMPIRE OF EMPIRES. And probably it's just bullshit that he's selling for the domestic audience. And Turkey certainly does have a checquered past when it comes to human rights. I believe that even now the oppression of Kurds is pretty intense. But still, one would like to think that somewhere in the world some leader finally had the guts and the integrity to realize that the Israel/US nexus MUST be confronted, whatever the risks, and that no one is in a better position to do it than Turkey. There may be a lot more quiet support for Turkey than one might suppose. It's hard to believe that the whole world actually enjoys being stomped on by the Israel/US nexus.
Yes, Erdogan is probably playing to his domestic, ever more Islamic audience. But sometimes events can overtake intentions. If Erdogan gets a huge response, say from a wider world audience — Arabs and westerners alike — on account of the worldwide outrage, he may get carried away, as politicians sometimes do. Then events may further conspire. I can easily see a movement growing out of this blockade incident, where thousands of supporters of non-violence flock to Greece and Turkey, get on thousands of boats and create a "people power" barrier between the Israeli and Turkish military forces.
Hope you'll excuse my enthusiasm, but I love this idea (though I'll probably have to rethink that when the Turks and Israelis start shooting at one another!)
We all should join him.
Erdogan would be an idiot to do this.
Turkey may even be kicked off NATO… his actions would be clear provocation, and essentially a declaration of war.
Anyway, the Turkish military i hear is still secular, and not too fond of Erdogan. I hope he doesnt cause a civil war.
On a closer inspection, he knows perfectly what he is doing. He may not have to follow up with his promise, as the issue of the blockade will be taken up by other countries as well. To paraphrase Russian FM, it took this bloody event to finally wake up the world community to the suffering people of Gaza. British Economist has listed — on its first page — a selection of prohibited/allowed products for Gaza. It was a true eye opener!
I do not see a civil war in Turkey. You heard wrong — the Army is not any more "secular", since by that you and others using this jargon imply controll from the outside. The younger generation of leadership has broken the ranks with the petrified elite. This is how the documents leaked describing in the minute detail the tactics by the "secular" Army to bring about mayhem and regularly orchestrate coups if they did not like the govenment.
It is the citizens of Israel and their well wishers around the world that need to think more clearly. This is not another one of those scrapes that US can paper over.
Yes. This is true because seizing a ship in international waters is NOT a provocation. Killing Turkish nationals on the same aforementioned vessel is NOT an act of war. It's self-defense! Just like when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. It was just the Japanese defending their interests. See? Makes perfect sense! With 'security' concerns invoked any action can be rationalized as 'necessary' no matter how unjust or diabolical it might be. When you pursue your own interests ruthlessly and to the exclusion of any ideals or morality or principals then what is left that remains out of bounds?
Sending the ships, and refusing to adhere to multiple warnings and requests to change course is a provocation
Yes, and the Germans used similar reasoning to defend unrestricted submarine warfare during both world wars. Are you saying that the Germans were right? That their right to deprive the enemy of supplies was greater than the right of neutral countries to engage in free commerce? 'Hey, we warned everyone that shipping stuff to Britain was a no-no. They only have themselves to blame.'
An aid ship used purposfully to damage Israels public image is not free commerce
It wouldn't have damaged Israel's image if Israel's decision makers weren't so retarded to do that all by themselves.
It's somewhat like a Tom and Jerry cartoon. Stupid tomcat.
If Israel hadnt stopped the ship it would have legitimised free naval travel to and from gaza, opening up an arms smuggling channel
What a flimsy excuse for the murder of 9 people and the wounding of 60 more.
Freedom of the Seas is an old concept that America used to support. And that we will again, as soon as we get our new Congress next year.
Right now, running as AIPAC's candidate is very, very bad in America. You'll see politicians running from AIPAC and Israel as this year goes on. I've been out protesting for the last week, and ALL the responses we've gotten have been positive. Not one person has supported Israel's murders, but we get constant horn honks and waves and thumbs up and peace signs from the cars on the road.
Israel is becoming very unpopular in the US right now.
"Israel is becoming very unpopular in the US right now. " I'll believe it when I see it…Fact remains that with backers like Hagee and his millions in campaign funds, AIPAC will manage to lure enough craven politicians to betray this country in the name of Israel's "right to self-defense".
Why is this a flimsy excuse?
Israel did not intend to kill the 9. Indeed on the 5 other boats the passengers were peaceful and were harmlessly redirected.
But on one boat hundreds of passengers decided to start beating soldier… what did they expect?
Forcibly boarding ships on the high seas (Itl Waters) , killing crew and passengers is still piracy. Capturing vessels and their cargoes in Itl waters is still piracy. And most of all a blockade is an International Act of War.
If anything, Netanyahu and his bunch of Russian Ashkenazi outcasts should be standing at the Bar in the Haigue as pirates and war criminals.
a blockade, under international law (geneva), is acceptable if it prevents good which may help the enemys war effort from reaching the enemy.
Also, under international law it is legal to engage a ship in international waters if it intends to run a blockade.
Israel is not running a legal blockade. That would require published lists of contraband and prize courts to determine the validity of seizures and the disposal of property. Also, there would have to be a legitimate declaration of war. Palestine in 1967 was not an independent nation with its own government. Gaza in 1967 was a protectorate of Egypt. Therefore, Gaza ia an occupied territory, wherein the Israeli military has various duties under international law. Depriving the occupied population of necessities is certainly not among the permitted options.
Not much to damage there to begin with.
There! The cat's finally out of the bag! We are talking about damage to Israel's public image. Obviously, this reveals all those who protest against Israel as "anti-semites" and, therefore "hate" criminals who may all be liquidated with impunity
I love the fact that Israel is now so completely insane that they thing someone trying to 'damage Israel's public image' is now an excuse to open fire on crowds with machine guns and kill our wound 70 people.
Completely insane.
And guess what, its not the ships that are damaging Israel's reputation. Its that they are calling attention to what Israel is doing to Gaza. So, in the long run, its Israel that's damaging its own reputation. And making it even worse when they start gunning down crowds with machine guns.
Completely insane.
Where do you all get this machine gun idea???
There were no machine guns!!!
The comandos fired, after great restraint, in self defense so safe thier own lives? there are videos to proove!!!
So the government did to the Branch Davidians at Waco, Tx
Those videos are highly edited footage designed to eliminate context and put the best possible spin on what the trigger-happy Zionists really did.
Israel doesn't need an aid ship to tarnish its image its image is already black as coal tar outside the U.S. Zionist owned media bubble.
So was Selma.
Wow, what BS.
A peaceful ship carrying supplies is a provocation and a act of war.
An illegal blockade and machine gunning down unarmed humanitarians apparently isn't.
BTW, blockades are uniformly regarded as an act of war. Or at least they have been until very recently. For instance, when Kennedy imposed his blockade of Cuba, he didn't call it a blockade precisely because his advisers told him that the word blockade would uniformly be viewed as an act of war. Kennedy chose instead to call his act a 'quarantine'. But his advisers thought that this wouldn't matter and that this would still lead to war.
Blockades have always been an act of war. And not just against the target, but also by neutrals who's ships are stopped or siezed or sunk.
If you read US history, you'll find a lot about 'Freedom of the Seas". And the US has twice gone to war to protest its ships being stopped, seized or sunken by blockades. And as recently as the Iran-Iraq war, the US was 're-flagging' ships to US flags so the US Navy could protect them from attack.
So, in history, its not some peaceful neutral who's committing an act of war by peacefully challenging the blockade in a non-violent fashion, but instead its the state imposing a blockade who is always viewed as committing an act of war with the blockade.
I like this Erdogan more and more. He's got the right idea. We ALL need to be on boats to Gaza. We need so many boats to Gaza that we can walk from Cyprus without getting our feet with. If we had millions of people marching and sailing to Gaza, that would be the right idea now.
Erdogan has exactly the right idea. We should all join him.
If this story is true then I would like to thank Prime Minister Erdogan for his heroic leadership and visionary outlook. The thorn in the side of the entire Middle East has always been the plight of the Palestinian people. As Israel has complete political and media control of the worlds only superpower (The United States – Un-challenged in firepower – But bankrupt in its fundamental ideals) The United States can no longer be trusted as an unbiased adjudicator and cannot be relied on to stand for global justice. This should be a great wake up call to the freedom loving people of the world, to support and stand up to the injustice perpetrated against the Palestinian people. Thank you again Mr. Erdogan. If your intentions are true, I see that many people in the peace loving world will not only show admiration for your actions, but will also support the ideals of your truly humanitarian stance. Unfortunately the past decade for the Western countries of the world have produced extremely mediocre leaders to say the least (Bush & Blair Etc.) Maybe what the worlds today really needs are fresh ideas and selfless actions.
expect Lula Mandella Gallway Carter to join Erdogan
Amen brother. This horror has to be stopped. I would like to see what the worlds reaction would be if Mandella was executed by Israeli special forces?
And the rest of us too….. The whole world needs to go to Gaza.
Good. Don't come back!
Turkey had their share of nasty things done to others.__Poland purport to be the pure victim of plenty of aggressions, including the Turkish.__Or Swedish. Or German. Or Russian. Or Austrian. __The French didn't invade Poland – they just used it, the French way, if you know what I mean.__Even the Poles were spread to Santo Domingo (of that time)! __Poland has their own list of bad things (can't top others, though)__Despite of that, being slightly dirty recently – Poland could act as Turkey does.__But the Unuseful Idiots there either slam their minds into ground (two times__during two years), or follow the line of their current master.__In this case, Turkey is cleaning its past – standing to present atrocities.__Turkey has its present problems, sure, with PPK. Or, with liberating Kurds.__Maybe they will do this after all. Russia, or Soviet Union – did leave many places__- even if they did not have to (I agree with Pat Buchanan).__Ending – Turkey past should not be considered as a obstacle to do good things today.__Just like the USA turned from a quieter slaughterer of the Indians into world bully,__the same "change" but in reverse.________
Leadership and visionary outlook?? Huh? You are drinking the kool-aid. Erdogan is a follower, not a leader. He is going along with what his people want, or at least giving them the lip service they want to hear. Just like most of our lame politicians who care about only one thing – staying in power.
Uh oh, Erdogan better watch out he isn’t suddenly victim of an unfortunate “accident” or the military doesn’t overthrow him.
That being said, ANY other country who did what Israel did would be called out on the carpet. I suppose the Irish and many other Western countries who participated in the Gaza flotilla are nutjobs? Not Islamic nutjobs, but I’m sure Israel would have a name for these stupid goyim cattle
Yeah, they are usually called 'anti-semites' or 'extremists' or 'Pro-Hamas Supporters' or 'terrorists.' What is odd about the anti-semite line is Arabs are Semites too. But then again why let details or the truth get in the way of a good story?
What has that fact got anything to do with it?
It is well known that the general use of the word antisemitim today it with referance to hate of jews
If you scan (supposed) conservative political forums the new line of those who put Israel above their country and the rest of the world is that if you do not support Israel then you are a "liberal" or a "leftist". So, no longer is the false left/right paradigm a matter of being for or against a bigger or smaller government, it's whether or not you support Israel. Of course, since supposed conservatives spent the entire Bush administration cheer leading the growth of government I guess it was only a matter of time that they changed the definition.
Can you imagine the reaction inside Turkey if that happened?
And of course, the next Turkish PM would then HAVE to be on the next boat in order to support what Erdogan died for. If this PM were to be killed, then there's no way the next PM would not be on this boat.
It's about time somebody showed some balls…Go Erdogan!
God Bless Mr.Erdogan and may God continue to Bless Turkey for standing up to barbarians!
GO GO Ardogan you are a hero ….Every time Israel does something evil, the US gets deeper in bed with them…. Go ahead Ardogan disturb them in bed
Israel needs to attack Turkey's soft underbelly by arming the Kurds to the hilt. That is the best way to punish them.
Go Turkey Go!
Re: ML#'s comment.
The Mossad has already been linked to an earlier assassination plot against Ergodan. This was after his public blow up with Peres over the Gaza attack. I'm sure that has colored Egodan's view of things. Turks are not to be messed with. I recall reading somewhere that of the 250+ Turks who were POW's in the Korean War, not one was broken by brainwashing. Tough SOB's, the Turks.
When I worked for in Europe, one of my colleagues was a Korean War vet who had experience with the Turks. During the war, he was in a front line unit when a Turkish unit moved into the line beside his. Said the North Koreans had a nasty habit of sending out recon teams at night and often the NK teams would attempt to come into the US lines and capture unwary GIs. The NK quickly tried that on the Turks. The next night, the Turks sent their own team out in the small hours of the morning. It was soundless. The US unit never heard any commotion from the Turkish part of the line. The Turks used only their knives. They returned with souveniers, NK body parts. After that, there were no more NK night time recon missions into the Turkish lines. I think Netyanhu made a big mistake in hi-jacking Turkish-flagged vessles and killing Turkish civilians. Spineless and corrupt U.S. officials may be incapable of recognizing Israeli acts of war and capital crimes against U.S. military personnel and U.S. citizens, but it seems the Turks actually have real leaders who don't view Zionist criminals as their lords and masters.
Autopsy examinations of the 9 deceased peace activists, killed (murdered) by Israeli military, reveal they were shot a total of thirty times, some in the back and the back of the head! Turkey is NATO member. Where the hell is NATO support for Turkey – US hegemony has swallowed NATO!
Shot in the back …. clearly self-defense.
The young American was killed with one shot to the chest and four to the head. The classic assassin's kill is one to the heart, one to the head, from close range.
And four bullets to the head was self-defense? What, the first three shots to the head didn't stop him and the soldier had to fire a fourth.
As expected, Israel's version of events is turning out to be total BS.
Funny, I don't see much anti-war sentiment here. Shouldn't this site be renamed 'anti-Israel.com'?
Too true
Isn't being anti-war and anti-Israel pretty much the same thing?
No.
ONLY PEOPLE WHO BLINDLY SUPPORT ISRAEL WOULD SAY NO. ISRAEL MEANS WAR…TRUE IN CASES OF IRAQ, EGYPT, SYRIA….AND NOW IRAN. THE SAD THING IS, IT GOT SMARTER AND JUST MADE OTHER PUPPET COUNTRIES LIKE USA TO FIGHT FOR IT.
These days Anti-war pretty much equals anti-Israel.
It sure has heck hasn't been Israel being peaceful anytime lately.
Notice how the Israeli propganda workers are running out of any arguments. Probably because their government just sounds insane with its ranting. So, now they are down to open and nasty attacks of everyone who doesn't agree with them.
Do you start to understand why nobody in the region likes them? Would you want these jerks as a neighbor?
For what are they running out of argument? I wasnt aware. i am not a propaganda worker, and i can state good reasons for Israel doing everything it has done
It's a cheap argument to pull out a few humanitarian gestures that Israel partakes in just to dismiss and evade criticism for what we all know is genocide. "The UN's commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, [said] that Israel's embargo was illegal. 'International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and it is also prohibited to impose collective punishment on civilians', Pillay said." One doesn't have to be "anti-Israel" or "anti-Semitic" to be outraged that in the 21st century this kind of open genocide is going on right under our noses and with our tax dollars. Generally people who are anti-war are also anti-genocide and anti-apartheid, so the comments on this site against the heinous war crimes of the Israeli government are totally appropriate. Attempting to blunt either the rage or the criticism with red herrings is a despicable act of complicity in war crimes.
What genocide???
How else do you sugest that Israel counter the rockets that are fired from Gaza. Before the blockade up to 80 a day were being fired at Israel.
There are two ways to stop this:
1) blockade
2) invasion
I think the former is preferable
What a brilliant idea!
It's about time a Turkish leader sailed to Israel to thank them profusely for all the generous earthquake assistance Israelis have provided them in years past. While he's there, Erdogan should also remind the world how helpful and effective the Israelis were in the recent Haitian relief effort. Surely an honorable man like Erdogan would never, ever let the recent calamity overshadow all the good Israel has done for others, including his own nation.
Finally, Israel will get the gratitude it deserves from a Muslim leader. Better late than never!
What GOOD?
You mean killing all those innocent people?
How typical of the bigots who post here, seeing only the Israel they WANT to see, happily overlooking all its POSITIVE attributes. I guess if Antiwar.com doesn't cover such topics, they don't exist, right? Why don't you broaden your horizons a bit and learn about some of the good things Israel has done, instead of being an uncritical receptacle for manipulative propaganda.
Did you not catch the part in my post about how Israel has helped in disaster relief efforts, such as in the Haitian and Turkish earthquakes? They even offered assistance to Iran, but the wise and ever-so-compassionate Mullahs refused, as expected, and to their own detriment. Israel has lent a helping hand to various African nations as well, only to be roundly condemned, ungratefully, out of political expediency.
Don't you know about all the hi-tech and medical advances Israel has made? They've even won some Nobel prizes, an award granted for CONTRIBUTING TO HUMANITY, which ain't something YOU folks are likely to do anytime soon.
Did this site even report the IDF mobile hospital that Israel immeiately sent to Haiti along with a medical team of 70 after the earthquake?
I doubt it very much, the delegation being highly praised as the best medical delegation in Haiti at the time
Well, they usually focus on conflicts and wars, as their title suggests. But if they did report it, most likely they chose "Israel Steals Organs From Haitian Victims" as their angle.
Wow, the two Israeli propaganda workers having their own conversation.
Racist bigots of the world unite.
Guess what, when some nut goes and starts machine gunning down innocents at the mall, no one remembers he helped paint a neighbors house. Israel just committed cold-blooded mass murder. We don't give a @#$@# if you gave a few dollars to Turkey.
Besides, since the US funds Israel, shouldn't we get the credit since it was undoubtedly our tax money you sent.
Turkey, the state that stills tries to deny the Armenian genocide and that denies the Kurdish people their rights to self-determination, now wants to set an example on human rights?
I saw the reports about how Israel helped others. The sad thing is, I have learned not to trust anything Israel say.
You don't get it and never will. You don't get a pass for planning to murder and ethnically cleanse people by the hundreds of thousands and steal everything they own, because you once helped some old lady cross the street. That's just evidence of a criminal psychosis. War criminals who are nice to their mothers are still war criminals.
I was not suggesting what you have just implied.
I was pointing out the double standards of this website, which reports anything bad about Israel that it can, but absolutley nothing good.
And, as i doubt you know, there is plenty of good to report about Israel
Its not a double standard to call a cold blooded murderer a cold blooded murderer.
And yes, you did suggest exactly that. Read your own words.
And like multiple people have said … when you start machine gunning down crowds of 70 people, no one cares if you helped an old lady cross the street.
You are out here supporting cold-blooded mass murder. Don't expect a warm reception. You might even try listening to it and learning why the world is so disgusted right now, instead of trying to constantly make excuses about why you shouldn't listen.
The world does not support cold-blooded mass murders. Israel used to get the advantage of that when it was Israelis being killed. But, for a long time now its only gone one direction, and what the world sees over and over and over is just Israeli murder. We are sick and disgusted by it. And we don't give a crap about your excuses.
*rollseyes* If you haven't noticed, AntiWar.com has been highly critical of any government waging aggressive war, including the United States Government. It's just Israel's turn in the spotlight. Don't worry, if and when the Mossad and the IDF go back to helping little old Palestinian ladies across the street, the spotlight will shift elsewhere.
Which page of the hasbara book is that from shill? I hope you are getting paid at least to cut and paste propaganda for land thieves ala Tokyo Rose.
Thanks for playing Lord Haw Haw.
Pathetic. You seem to be entertaining the notion that every one who is not an anti Israel biggot is being paid by Israel. You also seem to be labeling everything that you cant argue with as 'hasbara', like so many others on this site.
Yes they may have done some good BUT does that justify the MURDER of the Palestinians which they are doing every day?
What do these people have to fight back with -sticks and stones ?
Its people like you who are bigots – that is if you know the meaning of the word.
Every day? Out of the 365 days of last year, can you tell me about the palestinian killed by Israel for each day? Because I seem to have missed about 360 of them
Oh, they totalled up a few extra in 2008. Still working on the surplus.
What ? You mean it's open season now on Haitian children, as well as Palestinian ?
AS AN ELOQUENT EXAMPLE OF THE HIGH HUMANITARIAN NATIONAL ISRAELI ETHOS, PLEASE HAVE A CAREFUL LOOK AT THIS LINK SHOWING ONE OF YOUR COMPATRIOTS IN FULL SWING
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahco…
what are you talking about? This article does not refer to Israel, or even an israeli
He's guaranteed Israeli citizenship, even if he hasn't exercised the right. That's what is meant by "compatriot."
why not take five minutes first and try to actually construct a logical argument, this is not fox
Why not take five minutes and look at my posts on other articles, you will see that I am getting tired of stating my logically constructed argument again and again,
You're a joke, fella. You like to type, you like feeling important, heroically defending what you believe, but you betray your lack of depth and your immaturity.
So tell me child, how old are you? My guess is 23. Silly little infant.
"So tell me child, how old are you? My guess is 23. Silly little infant."
What an infantile pathetic sentance.
There are so many like you on this site, who upon hearing something that they dont want to, resort to personal attacks. The truth is that you are a joke.
Please explain to me what has led you to the conclusion that I "lack in depth", because you are the first person to say that to me in my life. However I suppose that many more on this site will say similar things in the near future.
Wow, diplomacy is gone and now you are just spewing abuse.
Your bosses at the Israeli Propaganda Ministry won't approve. You are supposed to be out here building support for Israel, not convincing the last handful who haven't figured out that the Israelis are now a very hateful and bigoted and racist country.
Can you explain, please, how exactly my post is abuse, while jeff_davis's is not?
Read the post that started this thread … its a personal attack that definitely shows you lack depth beyond just spewing abuse.
Wouldn't expect anything else now from Israel.
In my post, which has unjustfully been deleted, I made no personal attack worse that the personal attacks most of the posters make on this site.
But because mine was directed against the flow, it was deleted.
Now thats freedom of speech!!
Saying someone is biased does not show that someone lack depth
Answer the question, infant. I guessed 23 years old. How close did I get?
Do you consider yourself rude?
my answer for when you try to turn the question on me: I asked first
Most of us unappreciative goys have no patience for your talmudist logic
There's logic in this spew of hatred and bigotry?
Yes, the logic of bigotry and hate that one finds in the J*wish Talmud, wherein violence of J*ws against non-J*ws is condoned, and Our Lord Jesus Christ is consigned to a cauldron of boiling excrement. Read it sometime, it's right up there with "Mein Kampf" in sheer entertainment value.
Have you read it?
I believe you can tell much about who people really are by looking at what they hold fundemental and sacred:
For a Jew that murdered a gentile there shall be no death penalty – Sanhedrin 57a
If a gentile strike a Jew he shall be killed – Sanhedrin 58b
Death penalty for critics of Judaism who study the Talmud – Sanhedrin 59a
A Jew finding an object lost by a gentile does not have to return it to him – Baba Mezia 24a
The goyim are not humans. They are beasts – Baba Mezia 114b
All children of the goyim are animals – Yebamoth 98a
Yashu is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement – Gittin 57a
I do not have either of these books in my house but I do re-read them periodically at my local library
Assuming he really did exist, Jesus actually had some pretty interesting things to say. You and your amigos, on the other hand, most certainly belong in a "cauldron of boiling excrement". In fact, I'm picturing it right now! Much gratitude for the wonderful image.
HaHa, because you arnt all hating and biggoted towards Israel
I have never read and of the Talmud
i had 15 years of full time talmudic study and ill say there is nothing talmudic about any of your comments
I hope and pray that Turkey makes a stand against MURDER and indiscriminate killing carried out daily by the State od Isreal aided and abbetted by Obama's USA.
These nations are a curse on the face of this earth – someone has to stop the murders — maybe it will finally be Turkey. The Arab Nations are too much in debt to the USA and would rather watch their people die because they are all ruled by wealthy Dictators whose lifestyle is dependant on the Western Nations.
Turkey should better start by admiting their horrendous crimes in the Armenian genocide, and by not denying the Kurdish people their right to self-determination.
We'll maybe take that up after you Israelis grant the Palestinians their right to self-determination. Maybe.
What a great move. Either you prove NATO is for real, and Israel backs off, permitting the Gaza blockade to crumble before the whole world. Or, NATO is a sham, Turkey is vulnerable to Israeli military power, and America loses an enormous foreign policy tool when NATO collapses.
FUCK YA!
But just imagine the irony — NATO attacks Israel!!!! Don't forget that for all the American arse licking they do, the European powers have a lot of grunt and sooner or later they will turn on a US which is unable to recognise their interests. When that happens it will start just like this has.
Isn't it rich that the standard israeli supporters response, even on this anti-war blog, is to threaten assassination – it shows how degraded they've become. John S
We are 6 months away from a new congress in America.
Most of America is disgusted by this. And most of America will have candidates on their ballot who oppose aid to Israel. And, beyond that, most of America knows we could use that $5 billion at home for jobs right now.
Lets send a new Congress back next year that ends all aid to Israel. Its time for America to no longer be associated with this insanely racist rogue nuclear threat.
Maybe it is about time Israel got off the dole. Then they would not have to listen to the USA anymore. They would be freer to act in their own interest.
Israel has gone insane. The only thing they know to do is to scream their racist and bigot propaganda and threaten to kill and destroy.
Notice how Israel is trying to justify the murder of 9 and the wounding of 60 more because they might 'damage' Israel's image. That's insanity.
What would you think of someone who shoots up a shopping mall, and then says, "they were all talking bad about me and making me look bad." You'd send them to the loony bin.
We need and international looney bin to lock Israel up in. Maybe with some good meds and some counseling, they might someday be sane enough to be released. But I doubt it. More
Erdogan is not leading his people, he is following them. Therefore, Israel should realize that assasinating Erdogan will do no good. Any replacement would be as bad or worse. The best evidence for this is that the main secular opposition party in Turkey mouths more and worse anti-Israel rhetoric than Erdogan's party.
NATO will fall apart first. NATO doesn't have any real reason to exist right now. The Soviet Union is gone, and the USSR threat was the only reason Turkey was aligned with the US and Israel. Now that threat is gone, and the Turkish population wants to align with their Muslim brothers. Erdogan has no choice but to follow the lead of his people, but I think the US should be able to persuade him not to go through with such a foolish act. As long as NATO exists, it is not just a defence pact. It also carries responsibilities to listen to the NATO boss – the USA. Let's clarify something. If a just few Turkish ships get sunk and Erdogan goes to Davy Jones' Locker, other NATO members do not have any obligation to go to war, any more than the Germans or the French have any obligation to help us in our foreign adventures. Only if Turkey is actually invaded is there any responsibility to go to war..
You're right that the US will try to talk him out of it, but he's sort of put himself in a position where he can't easily back out. NATO has been unnecessary since the end of the Cold War, but positively dangerous and aggressive since the beginning of the Balkan War, continuing through Afghanistan.
The only nut job in the Middle East is Netanyahu. Once again the hypocritical U.S. that always states its fear of having a nutball with a nuke, supports and arms nutball with many nukes, this nut tob being Netanyahu. And israel is like the little twerp who terrorizes everyone in the schoolyard because his old er brother is a big bully. The terrorizing stops when the big brother has his ass kicked. The U.S. leaders need theirs kicked; unfortunately it will be our young soldiers who absorb the blow. We've lost hope in Abama, perhaps the turkish president can restore it.
Yes youre right, the only nut job in the middle east is Netanyahu. All the muslim jihad extremists are sane, normal, delightful human beings.
Your just sick and insane.
Lets see, who this week ordered his commandos to fire machine guns into an unarmed crowd.
BTW, remember, here in America, we are familiar with nuts firing machine guns into crowds. Its almost the national sport. So, we know the numbers that results. A typical american nut with a machine gun can kill and injure maybe 15 people.
So, now stop and think about how many commandos with machine guns had to be firing into that unarmed crowd to kill and injure 70? This was cold blooded murder. The victims were mainly shot in the head execution style.
This week, that's squarely on NetanYaHooo's head. He's the one ordering that. So, we really don't care about your racist and bigoted claims. In fact, we are quite sick of them.
The only thing more disgusting than the murders themselves are these flimsy and racist excuses for the murders. That's when you realize that Israel has become a very sick and insane society.
There were no machine guns. there were paitball rifles and glock pistols.
the comandos were ordered to take over the ships peacefull without using guns, as they managed to do on 5 of the ships. only on the marmara did the passengers attack and threaten the lives of the commandos, as can be seen in the video. naturally the comandos opened fire to save thier lives, as im sure you would have done, along with all soldiers in the world.
Get your facts right.
Are you really ignorant enough to ignore the facts and hear only what pleases you, or are you just ill informed? This webite, unfortunatley, is probably both.
on the open seas I think the order is to repel all boarders, attacking a flagged ship in international waters is piracy no matter who does it.
not true:
1) according to the Geneva convention, blockading is acceptable if it prevents goods which help the enemys war effort from reaching the enemy
2) Engaging a ship in international watars is acceptable if it is clearly intending to run a blocklade
@ Guy.
If Israel is so concerned with well being of Haitians who is 20 000km away why didn’t Israel send an ambulance to people of Gaza who is 2 km away?
Remember earthquake in Haiti was a “god made” disaster whereus disaster in GAza was man made.
More specifically a disaster commited by Israel.
Why Israel didn’t send a field hospital to Gaza 2km away.
On the contrary Israel prevented international aid and medical teams and ambulances entering into the territory.
Israel’s phoney “aid” teams are PR relations within the ambit of psychogical warfare.
Got it Guy!
You need to get your facts right
Israel allows full acces for Gazans to Israeli hospitals. Israeli ambulances regularly enter Gaza to deliver sick or injured to Israeli hospitals.
The only problem is, that on numerous occasions Gaza terrorists have pretended to require an ambulance in order to gain illegal access to Israel. In some cases, even hijacked ambulances sent to help them.
On other occasions, Hamas has not let Israeli ambulance reach the sick and injured that they have been called to tend to.
Have you actually seen this?
I have seen ambulaces going into Gaza to fetch palestinian sick/wounded.
I have not personally seen a hijack case, but its an accepted fact. look it up.
I have also seen rockets shot from Gaza
Isrel ,and Somalia are friends now,they are sea pirates
You're a sick fuck.
Jammy D, your pathetic and your logic fails you.
The Israeli aid operation in Haiti costed FAR FAR more than thousands of harvested haitian black market organs would have sold for.
Here's is a copy of an email I sent to Prime Minister Erdogan. I recommend that anyone reading this post consider sending some similar message of support. I also ask that you spread this idea around. For years I have felt helpless around the Israel-Palestine problem. Oddly, perhaps delusionally, the huge world reaction to the attempt to defy the blockade has given me some hope.
"Your mileage may vary".
Here's the email/ letter:
Dear Mr. Prime Minister,
Let me express my heartfelt gratitude to you for your courage in
standing up to the criminality of the Israeli government. Your
declaration to provide a Turkish military escort for future
humanitarian aid shipments to Gaza is a profound act of decency, and
your commitment to personally accompany those escorting forces is an
inspiration to all who care about justice, and who honor courage.
Clearly, such an action on your part, on the part of the men and women
of the Turkish Military, and of all the citizens of the Turkish
Republic will involve considerable risk. The bravery of those who
stand in defense of the beleaguered of Gaza compels us all to look
into our hearts to see what assistance we can lend to those who would
put themselves in harm's way for the cause of justice.
To that end, I propose that people of conscience from around the world
join with me to form a "People's Flotilla", and with gentle courage,
to risk as you risk, by providing you with our own humanitarian and
non-violent escort. As with the people power revolt in the
Philippines some years back, what is called for is a coming together
of all people of active conscience to interpose ourselves between the
misguided, who employ arms to enforce evil, and those who bear arms to
defend against it.
Can we create a human barrier against violence and injustice? Though
I am afraid, I am willing to try.
I am an American and a Jew, and it would be my great
privilege and honor to stand by you in this crucial
moment.. I beg you to remain steadfast, and allow people of active
conscience to join you and move humanity forward a few small steps.
Respectfully,
As a Jew, what the hell are you doing here? Most of the people who post here want your blood! Haven't you read their comments? Can't you see that the editors and writers are manipulating the information in order to stir up hate? Don't you know where that hatred invariably leads?
If you TRULY had a conscience, you wouldn't keep ignoring the exterminationist sentiment that gets expressed in the comments here, by bigots who have no intention of sparing Jews like yourself who may think you've earned their friendship and respect.
Enjoy your time among the wolves…until you've outlived your usefulness to them.
Hit job on Erdogan and theTurks from the WSJ June 3, 2010:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704…
A story of this magnitude , has to be checked, rechecked , and checked again. This could be something ground breaking. If it is true, Israeli intelligence would be on it like flys on –it. Intense lobbying would be going on. American intelligence would be on it also. For a head of state , a NATO ally…to try to re-align the middle east would be Monumental. This right wing Israeli government would put all its assets into this. It would be something in the middle East magnitude as Sadat deciding to go to war with Israel in 1973 or Sadat deciding to go to Jerusalem to meet the Israeli Knesset. This would be a nightmare scenario for the current Israeli Administration. These Intelligence agencies have assets tracking all ships, and people all over the country,etc. Actions would be taken. Eventually other reporters would pick up on the story.Therefore, if I was to gamble, I DON'T THINK He Will l DO IT. I just think its a news story in a paper, with antiwar.com giving it larger Font. It would Change current world history though.
We all need to be on a boat to Gaza.
Make sure it's a one-way ticket!
Wow, so hedonistic Turkey is now the defender of Islam, innit?!
Get real, the Turks don't really give a damn about the plight of the Gaza people, they're just trying to get back at the Americans and Israelis for the diplomatic humiliation they suffered last month vis-a-vis the Iran's nuclear program.
Go Turkey ,go and stand up against barbarism and state terrorism. Zahir
The commenter using the name "Guy" should change his name to "Gelding", as he clearly has had some key body parts removed. Either this, or he's an unapologetic supporter of piracy, murder, collective punishment, genocide, kidnapping, etc. – all the specialties of israel. In today's political climate, support for the aforementioned criminal acts – when carried out by israel or the u.s. – is accepted. The masses of the ignorant are necessary to drown out the voices of reason. However, when clearer thinking prevails, those who commit such atrocities will be seen for the criminals that they are and those who blindly supported such criminals will be seen as either idiots or accomplices.
Comments and replies posted by "Guy" (using the title loosely) are ineffective here because people who read this site are educated enough to know where to seek a true perspective. Perhaps his efforts would be more productive if they were directed towards government controlled media outlets. There are plenty of ignorant people who still seek their news through such propaganda mills and they would be happy to hear from another of their ilk. Such people aren't capable of individual thought and require constant reassuring and redirecting. "Guy's " contributions could provide yet another voice of criminal insanity to help guide them. That is to say; Hey, "Guy". Don't get a callous on your finger trying to get your (non) point across here. We're not listening.
Seriously; the lying should be left to the professionals. i.e.: israeli and american politicians. It's easy to see "Guy's" dilema. His heros are experiencing difficulty in attempting to sell the world on the idea that israel is exempt from all law, and this is a hard sell to be sure. Nevertheless, these corrupt regimes are fully equipped to control the flow of information and to produce the required overwhelming flow of propaganda and lies. The cheer-leading emanating from "Guy" is superfluous.
Another psychological analasys of me by a poster here. I dont mind telling you that absolutley every observation you made about me is wrong.
You are the last one who should be talking about clear thinking, at leat when it comes to Israel. How is Israel guilty of genocide?
How is Israel guilty of kidapping?
BTW, i dont use my title loosely, all the comments I have posted have been under the same name.
You didnt have to wright such a long analays. You could have written a sigle sentence against me, and received plenty of applause from the readers.
at least learn how to spell……..that would be a good start for you.
Another psychological analasys of me by a poster here. I dont mind telling you that absolutley every observation you made about me is wrong.
You are the last one who should be talking about clear thinking, at leat when it comes to Israel. How is Israel guilty of genocide?
How is Israel guilty of kidapping?
BTW, i dont use my title loosely, all the comments I have posted have been under the same name.
You didnt have to wright such a long analays. You could have written a sigle sentence against me, and received plenty of applause from the readers.
thanks…….for a intelligent,and truthful response…….right on.
how true…….thanks for the enlightment Eve
the spelling comment is directed at Guy.
Turkey hates the Jews because they want to be the king of slaughter. The genocide the slaughter of up to 1.5 million Armenians in the dying days of the Ottoman Empire makes them look almost as good as the Nazis. Allahu akba.
Turkey should attack Israel now instead of talking so much crap.
Kick Turkey out of Nato now!
you only approve comments of racism you fucking piece of shit asshole website
True. Any reported comments if containing anything that is pro Israel, are removed
And its sad, becasue this website claims to promote peace and human rights, one of which is Freedom of Speech
Only one of your comments has been removed. All the rest are here to be lampooned.
While serving in the U.S. Navy in 1970 my ship visited 2 ports in Turkey. We were told Turkish relations were Not friendly at the time. I found the Turkish People to be VERY friendly. I thank Turkey for standing up to Israel and wish my country would support you..
I salute Erdogan for his courage and righteous conviction. Nothing condones the action of the apartheid entity of Israel, and its bigoted leadership is prime candidate for war crimes trial. Recep Erdogan had the guts to stand up to the criminality played out in full view of the world. Amazing how any conscientious human being can remain unmoved by the ethnic cleansing of a people. If the UN had its arms twisted into partitioning the ancestral home of Palestinians in 1948 and allocating 55% of the territory to ‘select’ survivors of Nazi aggresion, the balance 45% of the territory would still belong to native Palestinians. Picture the situation: your whole country is taken over by some foreign claimants, you’re brutalized under military occupation, expelled from most of your homeland, or herded into the equivalent of an open prison. And the world’s self-declared champion of democracy and justice persists in bankrolling the aggressor. Brain-dead “Bush”-men aside, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Americans are so despised.
he should go and ask me i will acompany him. awesum, fuck all the israiliz, burn them to death, burn them all. wake up muslims.
You must be under the illusion that all of Israels 7 million population are deranged sadists.
Otherwise i dont think its possible to say such a thing
Comments left on Antiwar.com, yours included, are solely the opinions of the posters and do not represent the views of the editors and staff of Antiwar.com. *phbbbbbt*
Most Israelis are innocent of the crimes of their government, except for funding said crimes, which they don't have much choice in. I deplore your statement, sir.
Finally–Israel will have to stand up to someone its own size. The cowardly Israeli military has had it soft, shooting and bombing unarmed civilians and people with no place to run and hide. Let's see how they run when they have to stand up to a real army. As for the success of Israeli propaganda–it convinces only the true believers and the deluded Israeli populace. The rest of the world is totally immuned to their vicious lies.
The cowardly Israeli military!?!?!?
Even comming from a probable anti Israel fanatic (forgive me if youre not), that sounds absurd.
There is not a single country within a hundred miles of Israels border that has not given wiping Israel off the map a try. Some of them on more than one occasion.
All have failed, because the IDF defeated their armys, all of which were larger, and most of which were considered stronger at the time
Hezbollah showed that the IDF isn't much when it doesn't get to sucker-punch its opponents first. Even the 1973 war would have gone in the Israeli loss column if Nixon hadn't stripped out first-rate US equipment from Germany and used it to resupply the Israelis.
How can we help the turkish PM in his bravery to stand up to the Israeli pigs?
You cant
If the Turks really cared about the people of Gaza they would have landed in Ashdod. How shameful, using the people of Gazans as political pawns. Disgusting
Thanks for the navigational advice. Tally-ho! On to Ashdod!
Zionists would have done well to have found a stretch in Nazi Germany or some uninhabited part of the USA to establish their homeland. That would have spared Palestinians the ethnic cleansing and the world the perennial torment about acions by a rogue regime. You can’t redeem one set of victims by creating another. Why are Palestnians to blame for the Nazis? If today they are reconciled to a pre-June 1967 borders (which, by the way is less than 20% of Palestine), the Israelis should rejoice – instead of allowing their bigoted leaders to make them accomplices in the despicable crimes against the dispossessed. It’s time for both conscientious Israelis and Americans to force their leaders from the course of complete annihilation. And, let us not fritter away the opportunity we have for a healthy dialogue by being personally abusive. Let us reserve name-calling, if we must, to deranged “leaders”n who lie and deceive for their personal gains.